Former Tottenham stars Glenn Hoddle and Peter Crouch sounded pretty down-beat about Spurs’ situation as they spoke on BT Sport after watching Antonio Conte’s first game in charge.
The Italian tactician came in this week to replace Nuno Espirito Santo, and got off to a winning start with a 3-2 victory over Vitesse in the Europa Conference League on Thursday night.
Still, the match also seemed to serve as a reminder of the difficult job Conte has inherited at Tottenham, with Hoddle and Crouch still remaining highly unconvinced by this squad of players.
Watch below as the pair weren’t too impressed with this performance, which saw Spurs go 3-0 up before allowing Vitesse back into the game…
Of course, it’s going to take time for Conte to really make his mark on this team, and for now perhaps results like this aren’t to be sniffed at.
For all the hype since Conte’s arrival, however, perhaps this reality check from these pundits is something some of the fans needed to hear.
Brian Clough continued to do pretty well at Notts Forest until his last disastrous season, too. Yes, he didn’t win the league title or European Cup again in later years (only two league cups), but Forest were not that big a club and weren’t likely to repeat that kind of success.
And Wenger was stuffed (like Pochettino) by a new expensive stadium. He also originally INHERITED a fantastic defence and was perhaps found wanting in replacing successfully that part of the team. He did stay too long, though.
You make some good points and it does seem a problem nowadays, at any rate. Ferguson did leave United in a declining state, but he had nevertheless been successful pretty much up to the end.
Busby left behind a team very much in decline, but in his penultimate season he won the European Cup and in the previous three seasons won the league twice. So still pretty effective near the end of his 23 years in charge.
Shankly won the FA Cup in his final season in charge and runners up in the league; the previous season he won both the league title and the Uefa Cup, less prestigious, to be sure, but in those days (as Nicholson claimed) generally more difficult to win. Shankly had laid the foundations for the Reds’ subsequently phenomenal success. And was winning at the end after a fallow period.
As for Nicholson, he wasn’t as successful later on but was still winning cups, so hardly a failure. It tends to be overlooked the part that luck plays. I think Bill’s later relative lack of success was not due to a loss of effectiveness at handling players (though he had no time for the under the counter payments that were becoming rife) compared with previously, but that he couldn’t quite piece a team together, find all the requisite parts in the transfer market. I always think, too, he lost something with the departure of Blanchflower.
Stein wasn’t the same after he underestimated Feyenoord in the European Cup final in 1970 (hard to believe now, a Scottish team playing in the European Cup final, and twice in four seasons at that),but whereas, previously, he inspired a group of players who had not known even domestic success, he had then to handle a newer, more ambitious, more mercenary kind of player; apart from McGrain, he lost all his promising star players, either to English clubs, injury in one case, and in other instance, a player, a Scottish footballer of the year, who couldn’t handle the spotlight or the dressing room banter and wanted to be a lorry driver instead!
But, yes, over familiarity is potentially a problem. Essentially, there are things you have to keep telling footballers over and over again and, as Bobby Robson said, after a time they stop listening to you! Gordon Strachan has also stated his opinion that four years is about your maximum with the same group of players. There is perhaps a situation now where players have longer careers so you’re not turning them over as often and refreshing the team. Ferguson has said that you have to keep on identifying players who have lost a little bit of their hunger and move them on. Of course, as you point out, a clever bit of business by Fergie was to change his coaches periodically so there was a new voice on the team.
Ferguson is the big exception but he always brought in top signings to freshen things up and made an example of certain players like Jaap Staam, Beckham, Keane and Ince. He also brought in new coaches every few years, McLaren, Queiroz, Phelan to bring in new voices.
And you could argue that by staying on too long he has in part left United in their present state.
Nicholson never repeated that brilliant period 1961-1963, I know he won FA and League Cups and UEFA Cup.
Shankly had a strange, sad end never winning the European Cup that he deserved.
Wenger has stifled Arsenal by not knowing when to go.
This reminds me of Jose’s start
There is something in this but Busby, Nicholson, Shankly, Stein each had at least thirteen years at one club and the cast of players does change over time. Guttmann, incidentally,I believe left Benfica because they didn’t give him a bonus! He allegedly put a curse on the Portuguese club saying they wouldn’t win a European trophy in the next 50 years… and they haven’t! Eight losing finals! 5 losing European Cup Finals (two of these effectively away games, Inter Milan in the San Siro and Man Utd at Wembley and another final lost on penalties. The hat trick attempt, in 1963 against AC Milan, floundered on an injury to their captain, Coluna after they scored first – a superb effort from Eusebio), one losing Uefa cup final and two defeats in the final of the lesser Europa League.
What’s happened to Skipp? He’s turning into Winks. Supposed we have to allow for the fact that he shone for Norwich last season which probably isn’t very hard. We need more creativity in midfield.
There’s a famous maxim in coaching circles on the longevity of managers and teams and it comes from the Hungarian master tactician Bela Guttmann.
A manager and team has a three year life cycle, after that the players are tired of the same voice, tactics coaching and other teams have worked you out.
Occasionally a Guardiola or Ferguson stays longer than three years but they will refresh things with a constant flow of new players and coaches.
Levy has gone against all these ideas apart from changing coaches to save his own skin and Spurs are reaping the rewards.
Guttmann actually took this idea even further and never stayed more than two years.
Which one ?
HA HA HA HA ………………
Is this the match thread?