It is extraordinary what the human mind can achieve when pushed to its limits by circumstance. Mauricio Pochettino lost significant credibility when he denounced the importance of winning trophies. Specifically, after being beaten on penalties by Chelsea in 2019, Pochettino told the world:
“Again we’re going to have the debate whether a trophy will take the club to the next level. I don’t agree with it. It only builds your ego. The most important thing for Tottenham now is to always be in the top four.”
Eurosport
And now Manchester United’s Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has opted to dive headlong down the same emergency shute.
“Any cup competition can give you a trophy, but sometimes it’s more of an ego thing for managers and clubs, ‘we’ve finally won something’. We need to see progress and if we perform well enough and progress well enough the trophies will end up at the club again.”
But it’s not like a trophy will say that we’re back, no. It’s the gradual progression, and the consistency of being top of the league, in and around there, and the odd trophies. Sometimes the cup competition can hide the fact you’re still struggling a little bit.”
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
Quite what Manchester United fans will make of these comments remains to be seen, what we do know is that Poch courted very little favour with the Tottenham fanbase by trotting out the ENIC business model and trying to pass it off as a coaching strategy.
Personally, I’m not sure how I’d like my season to finish, a dozen or more points behind the title winner’s City, …or as FA Cup winners. Oh, actually I do know…
Hahahaha
No there should be progress all round….. You bang on about 1 league cup in 20 years…. Well 7 years of that was Botches and he should have won something. Best defence in the league walker Rose Verts Toby Loris all in their prime. Kane repeatedly winning golden boot…. He won nothing..
We nearly defended it the next year, only beaten in the final by Manure and a certain Ronaldo. We still had a good team and potential.. United were extremely strong still back then. Chelsea were strong, City were strong… What titles and ambition did you expect? We couldnt afford to buy all the players like the top clubs, so to try and compete financialy Baldy built the stadium, and messed it up, and many hate him for it…. Cliche indeed.
I may have won nothing son, but all the winners and legends have egos. At least I haven’t got that!
Winners winning cups what a suprise. The best players and squads this is all kids stuff…. Your explanation is long winded and explains nothing..
Winning trophies IS progression.. I’m suprised Babyface also pulled the ego card. This is no excuse for being a serial loser failing repeatedly. What about the class of 92 under Sir Alex… I wonder if anyone wishes that they hadn’t won so many trophies, because it gave them ‘an ego’.
So we are still a club that should be spending it’s time outside of the Champions League going for the League Cup every season? 13 years after the last one it?
Where’s the progress there?
I agree, it shouldn’t be a choice. However, history under ENIC has told us that is exactly what it is. There’s a lot of talk of ambition, and you could argue that the new stadium is a manifestation of that ambition, but no quality player worth their salt is ever going to be satisfied with just qualifying for a higher level of competition every year if it results in winning nothing.
Winning mindset isn’t something you switch on or off. And getting over the line builds a belief that makes winning the next time potentially easier.
Correct, Eastie.
Well if that is an option, then by all means. Poch threw away cup after cup to prioritise the league and CL, of which we won neither, unfortunately. The cups were the price of some top 4 finishes – however, we could have arguably done more in the cups if we had the right attitude. This includes the EL.
Might be tough if you treat the cups as second-rate and then when you reach a semi-final, trying to turn it on all of a sudden, while your coach goes on saying “Trophies are just for your ego” or – in a more important competition – “I’ll probably go if we win this one”.
Much prefer Jose’s way of doing things. Start thinking every competition is worth winning and stop cherry picking when you can half a-s something and when you have to go full throttle.
But we didn’t use the extra revenue generated by our consequetive qualifications for the CL.That was the con all along like,when we have the 1BM shopping centre and the world’s best training facilities the worlds best players will be beating a path to our door.It’s the ENIC/Levy myth.
Exactly Bobby, someone else gets it here at least!
I agree and the likes of City, Chelscum etc have been able to do both but at the moment the squad isn’t good enough. This was MoPo’s dilemma, what do you sacrifice?
Fair enough, that’s your take on it.
If I had a choice of winning he League Cup OR playing in next year’s Champions League I’d take the latter. Get in that, stay in it and then start picking up the pots.
Start behaving like a big club rather than pretending, like we did 13 years ago, before selling off the team…
Despite the apparent condescension, I agree that the success is due to City’s squad. However, if we’re not winning the league, not winning the CL (nor the EL, without a better attitude), it’s really only the FA Cup and the League Cup that we can aim for.
Participating in the CL brings in money to improve the squad, which will improve the league standing. That sounds nice in theory, but has that really happened when Poch was getting us into the CL?
I can’t agree that it’s okay to throw even the “lesser” competitions away to finish top 4 and get knocked out by Bayern in the last 16 of the CL. Doing that teaches the squad that losing is perfectly fine and something to get used to.
Besides, why can’t you be in the top European League and win domestic pots anyway. Why am I asked to make a choice here? If I’m asked what’s more prestigious for the club in 2021 then Champions League all day long…
Do three quarters of the Premier League clubs ever think they’ll win the league?
Would they rather drop into the Championship so they could win that instead? The Champions League is the Premiership of Europe and there’s no point in being in it? I couldn’t disagree more…
“I was so jealous son, of that of that one League Cup every decade…” 😂
Yep, 100%
What is the point of playing in a competition that realistically we have no chance of winning. I understand that financially European football is important and is a lure to attract the best talent but unfortunately as Spurs won’t pay the transfer fees or wages required to bring in the elite it is all a bit academic anyway.
Winning begets winning.
“Dad, what did you do in football?”
“I wasted 20 years of my life watching other people win trophies”
I agree, but what trophy winning habit did we get into after 2008? It’s a bit of a myth all that, it’s all about ambition.
So what if you win it and then sell off all your best players in the following transfer window like Levy did?
It’s a cliche for me…
Read above Mike…
I’ll explain for you…
The reason why the League Cup is mainly traditionally won by the biggest clubs is because they have squads strong enough to do it.
They often play squad players and youngsters in it in the while their first choice players are rested for the big stuff. If they get to the semi or final they might step it up with a few first choice players to kick on and win it.
Utd used to win quite a lot it this way under Ferguson too, it breeds winning but it’s not their priority. Wenger used to only play young players in it, which I think git to them the final one year I believe? (not that I care)
It’s an add on for those clubs and not priority, which ironically makes it easier to win with little pressure or resources expended.
Winning trophies is a great habit to get into. It breeds a winning mentality.
Dias has been a game changer for them, similar to VVD at Liverpool. He’s 23, the same age as Rodon.
Since 2008 when we won it, in the 13 years since Man City 5 times, Man Utd 4 times, Liverpool, Chelsea, Swansea and Birmingham once.
Why would someone like Pep consider this ‘tin pot’ important then ?
Right, what are Manchester City thinking, winning it five times in the last seven years? Do they not know nobody cares?
A club that hasn’t won anything for 13 years has no right to turn up its nose at a trophy. City could, as they’re expecting to challenge for everything every year – but they don’t.
I agree the Carabao Cup is not the be-all end-all but getting the feeling that we actually CAN win a competition is always useful.
They can still win the Europa.
I agree. I’d like us to win the League AND qualify for the Champions League. But if I had to choose between the two, I’d sooner we qualified for the Champions League.
Depends what you’re talking about winning. Does anyone actually believe that any Man Utd fan cares about the League Cup? If it comes in season where they win the League too then great, but on it’s own it’s 8th prize, in this order;
1st;Title
2nd; Champions League
3rd;Top 4
4th; FA cup
5th; Ropey League
8th; League Cup
Is that irony?
If not – is he the only one who has ever covered their mouth on camera? Players do that almost every game before a freekick, managers often do it when talking to their assistants; this same player did it just yesterday next to a white referee.
He must have said something vulgar, sure, but there’s no proof of racism, so to suggest booting a club out of Europe based on that is lunacy.
😬
A Real Team
…..with a great manager & money to burn on Dias, who we really wanted, but Levy wouldn’t stretch to.
I agree with him, I’d rather compete in the champions League every season than ever win the League Cup for example. You couldn’t win the Ropey if you were in the C.L anyway (unless you dropped into it).
FA Cup is a good one to win (albeit not what it was) but I still think I’d rather top 4 and gradual push for the title, using the extra revenues and riches the Champions League bestows upon you year after year.
Playing in the ‘world’s elite club competition’ has a ring about it and I’m bored withe constant garbage about the League Cup being more important just because it’s a tin pot. It’s the wooden spoon…
Levy’s personal Covid swab
There are parallels between this Utd team and us under Poch. They have a 1st 11 that can beat anybody on their day but their back-ups are not up to much. They are a Bruno Fernandes injury away from being a mediocre team. They are a million miles off City and I cannot see them winning the PL with Solskjaer at the helm. City are going to win the league at a canter without a recognised striker for most of the season and they hardly missed KDB when he was out for 6 weeks. They have real strength in depth.
Another season & Man.U win nothing & somehow Penandes deserves player of the season.
Kane should be recognised before him on stats alone, if your not gonna give it to a City player
This is where it’s going. Molding the minds of the next generation to be comfortable with failure. It was an astonishing quote from Poch, but when you see he talked about “winning titles” when he arrived at Spurs it shows how Levys hand up the managers jacksy totally infects everything. Can’t believe Fergie won’t be having a little word with Solskjaer either.
If you cup your hands like that so no one hears, you’ve definitely said what they say he did.
I remember in the 80’s our clubs getting banned from Europe.
So why not take the situation serious in Europe & do it.
It will make them all think twice next time.
…..but the Chelsea would’ve got booted out done years ago after how the acted to that French bloke in the underground in one their Champions League games
But as we know, nothing will be done of note.
I wonder how that will go down at a club where they’re actually used to winning. We haven’t won a thing since 2008 and we’ve loved Poch, but that statement was met with contempt, and rightly so.
On a sidenote (I promise I will stop mentioning this, but the developments are genuinely worrying), Glen Kamara’s lawyer now calls for a two-year ban for Kudela and for giving Arsenal a bye in the EL QF against Slavia. All for alleged racism.