There has been a fair degree of discontent about Hojbjerg doing the rounds within the Spurs fanbase of late, to add to which, there’s an increasing degree of praise creeping in for Harry Winks.
This is my attempt, at least, to try and make sense of what has become a considerable shift in the fortunes of the pair. Hojbjerg was widely seen as a steely, rather vital Viking. Whereas, it is fair to suggest that Winks was commonly viewed as somewhat of a ‘yesterday’s man.
Directions of travel
Hojbjerg remains a pivotal player for his country, having racked up 75 starting XI spots for Denmark, whereas Winks has amassed just 11 starting XI appearances.
The Dane has played consistently in the Premier League for Southampton Spurs over the last few seasons.
Winks has been struggling to remain relevant under any of our recent coaches. And for context, the 25-year-old (who is 26 in a matter of weeks) has been on Tottenham’s books since 2013/2014.
Style
Both players operate as utility midfielders, and there’s a case to be made for neither man being naturally offensively minded. Hojbjerg was more attack-minded in the last Euros tournament, but obviously, that wasn’t in a Tottenham shirt. Winks has routinely frustrated for club and country, and whilst his passing accuracy has always been high, the lack of attacking dynamism has been a recurring chore.
Bigger picture
Looking at the squad as a whole, we see that Oliver Skipp is perhaps more naturally a defensive midfielder and that Tanguy Ndombele is obviously an attacking midfielder.
This leaves us with arguably our best (and most expensive) attacking option unable to play as he is invariably unfit, and our first choice defensive-midfield option in need of rest during hectic schedules such as Christmas.
The odd couple
Putting Winks and Hojbjerg together is clearly far from ideal. I would suggest that pitting the two against each other is a naive and depressingly simplistic way of approaching matters. Think of Dwight K Shrute arguing over who would win in combat – out of a bear and a shark.
Against Southampton, Winks created many chances and made more attacking third passes than Hojbjerg.
Yet it was Hojbjerg who won 10 duels to Wink’s 4.
Conclusion
Drawing sweeping conclusions based upon very small sample groups is a notoriously dangerous business. For me, this is a transitory pairing and ideally, Conte would look to match Skipp with a more attacking option, which leaves few particularly satisfactory combinations.
Hojbjerg has the best career trajectory, Ndombele may well be a lost cause. Skipp is still on his way and his age frequently overlooked. The notion that Harry Winks is now embarking upon some kind of comeback tour, strikes me as implausible.
If I’ve learned anything, pondering our midfield, then it is until the desperate state of affairs with Dele Alli, Giovani Lo Celso, and Tanguy Ndombele are addressed, then Conte’s worries are considerably bigger than any imagined contest between Pierre and Harry.
Quite right! Really don’t understand all this recent criticism of PEH.
He has hardly played the last two years
I thought you were all about the stats these days? Or is that only when it suits?
He comes out highly on all progressive passing metrics, whatever site you use. I’ve provided the link to a well-established site there. I wait for evidence to the contrary
He’s been vaxed and he’s had it three times, even some of the scientists (not the ones on Pfizer or the government’s payroll) are now saying that vaccines and spread is pretty much “meh”. Not my words…
I think even Winks could agree with how most observers have viewed his game the past couple of years or so, it’s gone backwards (no pun intended).
He likes covid.
We can’t get Lo Celso or N’ando’s belly on the pitch… never mind 90mins !
I know. I ran the dev centre.
Fitting Beckham in a wide position probably had something to do with it, Lampard OR Gerrard should have been the strategy, you can’t just go with the pest performing players if the blend is wrong. My main criticism of Sven was this rather one dimensional approach. Missed opportunity leaving Carrick out.
Taking Walcott at 16 to the World Cup at the expense of a more senior players was also utterly baffling.
All ancient history now of course…
No, no he doesn’t
It needn’t have come to benching either.
A 433
Lampard ahead of Carrick and Scholes.
Gerrard and Rooney either side of Owen.
It would have mean dropping Beckham, or playing him at RB – the world wasn’t ready for that then though (Glenn came closest playing him as a RWB)
It isn’t a surprise that Winks passed forwards, it’s a myth he passes sideways and backwards only.
Look it up. Progressive paasing, passes in to the final third – he always comes out well on any of the analyitic sites.
https://fbref.com/en/players/2f7acede/scout/365_euro/Harry-Winks-Scouting-Report
Hojbjerg is okay, a 6/10 in everything without excelling at anything. Doesn’t have good enough feet to control a game from a deeper position, not quite disciplned enough to be a proper defensive shield, not creative enough to be an attacking 8.
I have absolutely no problem with him being in the 25 but he isn’t a starter for me. We have very little playmaking ability in the side, with both Son and Moura in the front three, so we need more from the central midfield.
Watch Skipp and you will see what is expected. Always on the lookout when receiving the ball, shields well, good first touch, ability to turn quickly and carry, good passing across all distances. Defensively he tracks well, anticipates danger. This kid will only get better.
I’d like to see him alongside someone who has good feet and can pick a pass in the final third – the back three means you have more defensive security and can be a little more adventurous with your midfield, carrying the ball or moving it quickly becomes more desirable.
Winks has really staked a claim lately, offers something different. Not as strong defensively as Hojbjerg, but crisper passing to get us away on the break. Lo Celso or Ndombele i’d like to see given 90 with Skipp too.
SAF built a dynasty of achievement around Carrick!
He screws Conte and I think the knives will be out permanently. Even the social media generation wake up to reality eventually.
PEH has heart and desire. Love him. He’s a bit knackered due to being flogged to death but he will never be slated by me. Warrior. We need more like him. Winks isn’t fit to lace his boots. Or whatever laces are these days.
Not so sure about that. I seem to remember him playing deep in our midfield, like a deep lying playmaker where he was excellent, it was after that when he got his move to Utd. L
I’ll hold the door open..
He was invited to train at our development centre in St Albans in 2001 at the age of five, and joined our academy the same year. He moved up to training with the 1st team in 2013, the year Thud left.
The loss of his place with the England squad didn’t help, but he completely lost his way, probably should have cut his ties and moved.
Carrick was a forward thinking mid until SAF put a ball and chain on him.
I would have gone Carrick and Gerrard in those days, I never understood why Lampard and Gerrard had to start as a pair, Lampard made the most of what he had and was a quality box to box midfielder. However, Gerrard was on another level for me, Lampard should have moved to the bench for the greater good and a player to better compliment Gerrard alongside him.
😂
You say that but one of the biggest England debates was the playing of Lampard & Gerrard together. Both attacking MF’s by definition.
Players tend to fall into a catagory. They have a strength that defines that. I worked with Winks for some considerable time. I can tell you, he is a more attack minded player than defensive minded.
Dele @ N’Dombele should be out the door first with Doherty right behind them.
Midfielders don’t need to be ‘attacking’ or ‘defensive’ specialists, in fact the vast majority are like Winks, i.e neither. You need a blend though, get that wrong or if you don’t have the players to create the right blend then you don’t get the best out of any of them…
You need players like PEH, the ‘water carrier’ job needs to be done by someone. I’ve tried to make the case that although PEH can be extremely effective in that role, we are particularly taken with him because we haven’t had a single player like that in the squad since Wanyama’s knees went.
It had been that long, in the intervening couple of seasons we had to endure a midfield pairing of Sissoko (so good he ends up at Watford) and Winks. Neither of whom are suited to the kind of job players like Wanyama and now PEH were made to do.
So PEH is a great soldier, tough and hard working with a goal or two in him. Is he the level of quality a top team requires to start every game? I feel that’s debatable as the top sides now have players that can do that job but also come with a great range of passing and vision. He was at Southampton and had only made it to Bayer’s B team when he was there, he cost us about 15m, there’s no way Kante costs you 15m.
I really like the guy and as part of a squad players like him are essential. However, there seems to be a culture at Spurs that when we sign players that there’s this belief that the white shirt will turn them into better quality players. Yes we desperately needed a midfield destroyer but as the likes of Freund, Sissoko, Huddlestone and even as Dier alongside Dembele was, we tend to overrate these players because of our paucity of other options. Not only players that play that position, and particularly under Levy… Just a thought.
It probably lives in his greasy hair.
Trouble is Conte has inherited a whole bunch of square pegs to fit in round holes. Levy’s, and dare I say it also Paratici’s (obviously under the influence of Levy’s financial constraints), purchases have not been prioritised correctly.
We desperately needed a proper AM in the Eriksen mould, and have done for a number of years now, ditto with a second striker. Paratici’s arrival was lauded as a new beginning yet neither of those vacancies have been filled. If they remain unfilled during January then the only conclusion we can come to is the Italian is just another puppet and the little Emperor is still pulling the strings.
We’ve got too many CDM’s, the whole squad is imbalanced because Levy doesn’t buy on need he buys what he (in his ignorant little mind), thinks is somebody whom he can make a profit on down the line.
The crazy part is that he expects his managers to achieve CL football with his demented scattergun approach to transfers!
The little man and his influence is a massive ball and chain to THFC that will make Conte struggle to achieve success.
PEH needs a break so it may happen. Dele Alli is shot to bits no good…so it’s Skipp and Winks.., iffy, Skipp and NDembele..too loose..too much laying down ..or Tinsel ankles LoCelso..who does get targeted by the opposition but doesn’t have the ankles to fulfill his defensive duties..that’s if he is bothered of course.
This has to be the third time Arteta has tested positive for Covid. But wait, he’s been vaxed?! 🤔
Winks is a product of the academy. He’s been with the club since he was 9. He’s played under 5 managers in that time.
I’d agree but as an attacking MF defending isn’t supposed to be his strong point. In fact, it was never his strong point. This is possibly where the problem lies with him. He’s been asked to do something that isn’t natural to his style of play.
If now he’s being given a freer role he may improve the team.
Cheers on the spot.
If, if, but, but, If you think Winks, Dele and Co became over night world beaters you are living in Levy&Co land, Dele was sensational Vs Scousers have you watched him Vs Southampton what is your thinking? he was even responsible the goal we conceded. we cannot achieve anything while we are in this roundabout either move these losers on January or forget any hope for this club to be successful or win anything. trying to polish turds when January is in the corner i guess I’m reading the Baldy book of insanity.
My observation is that PEH is a great MF on a bad team and a good one on a good team. On Spurs BC (Before Conte) PEH had to cover a lot of ground making up for defensive lapses and team malaise as the squad ranked last in distance covered overall. Now, Spurs rank 1st in distance and players are better spaced on the pitch, negating the need for the Viking to swoop in and save the day.
It would be interesting to see PEH’s distance covered and positions on the pitch now and BC to see how his role has changed now that the team looks more organized.
Winks is of the Thud type & era; just not quite good enough. I also cannot see Conte getting enough out of him to make the difference. Whereas I can see Conte’s mini me coming into his own ever more so.
The only reason W*nks, N’belly, Low Sell & Deli Alley are here is because of our business model. There’s no positive footballing reason for their presence whatsoever.
His match against the Saints was certainly his best showing for a very long time.He looked to be more offensive and if that is Conte’s instruction perhaps we have found new midfielder,providing he can find the consistency.
PEH certainly looks like he could do with a rest and constantly playing himwill burn him out.If Winks could play more like he di yesterday then maybe him and Skipp could work together.
It doesn’t alter the fact that we desperately need a creative midfielder though,which is something we will probably have to wait for in the summer.
Sadly Winks defending is appalling. He hit a couple of good balls yesterday but what that exposed is that we remain a counter attacking side , and while we defo should have had more goals , our inability to break down a ten man Soton was there for all to see.
Hoj has played a lot of football, Mourinho played him in every game then the Euros and now virtually every game for us and his country this season, he sometimes looks as if he needs a rest for a week or so, no complaints about him though. Winks surprisingly made some quality forward passes yesterday, something we consistently lack from our midfielders, they are both different in style and abilities, but I wouldn’t lose sleep if Winks moved on.
Winks has been with the club since he was 9 years old. He came through the academy system. All through and right up to making his first team debut he was an attacking midfielder. His most impressive game was against Real Madrid in the CL where he bossed the MF against the like of Modric.
Since that game, there has been a steady decline. For some reason, probably known only to him, he became a safety first route type player. Square or back passes had become the norm from him.
My experience of players who do this, is one of confidence. If you play it safe you are safe from the critics. The problem for Winks however is that because he’s stayed on this path so long, he now gets the very criticism he was wanted avoid.
My hope is that this recent resurgence is the result of working with the new manager. His coaching and advice is restoring Winks faith in himself to be the player I know he can be.