In classical mythology, Zeus gave a box to Pandora, the first woman, with strict instructions not to open it.
Pandora’s curiosity soon got the better of her, and she opened the box. All the evils and miseries of the world flew out to afflict mankind.
Mauricio Pandorattino may have met his Waterloo here.
Of all the things Poch might have said after the Crystal Palace debacle, his disparaging remarks about facile nature of winning domestic cups was almost certainly the most ill advised.
The bulk of us always knew that ENIC were up to no good.
As per the handy Venn diagram above, normal fans want to see their side lift trophies.
This is the metric of success in this sport.
Even dog shows for mutts give out rosettes for Best Waggly Tail etc, everything is about winning.
If you want to stroll about, amiably smelling the flowers, then kindly adjourn to the countryside, where the only competition you will experience is from the occasional gaggle of aggressive cyclists.
Pochettino has been truly savaged here, the Argie’s credibility couldn’t be any more damaged.
WE CAN’T JUST SAY TOP FOUR AND THAT’S IT
These words are going to haunt Pochettino until he goes from being a perennial loser, to being a winner.
It is impossible to find anyone with anything approaching coherent to say about the Daniel Levy business model.
Poch’s sneer at domestic cups – considering he’s yet to win anything in England makes him look an irredeemable fool.
The transfer window closes in 2 days.
Oops sorry mate wrong question. Its been a long day!
* So how much is £600 mil over 10 years? 520 X £1mil odd?
Possibly, but I’d rather he stay and be a Levy stooge and we grow in stature as a club. With ENIC as owners, only an exceptional coach prioritising our league position make that possible.
I won’t cut off my nose to spite my face and neither should Poch. ENIC are the problem and this bloke takes all the flack. Love Poch, fuck ENIC…
If that were true and we don’t make the CL then we’re stuck with a wage bill we can’t pay. That’s not how Levy does things.
You are joking right? Ffs. This is Haringey!!
I’m not listening to this guano any more and people insist upon posting it, then it will not be on here.
Already cleared out one shower of losers, I am not looking to replace them.
We’ve had all the debates, and if you’re pro ENIC then you’re wrong.
So how much is £600m a week over ten years roughly? 520 weeks X £1mil odd?
EXACTLY.
And Solsjkaer has shown the ruthlessness required by destroying his main rival
We are a club holding itself hostage.
what are you smoking sell some to Levy
Rubbish
Why would you want to have gooner mates ffs?
John, your wretched justification bores me, if I was you I would kill myself.
He didn’t use the word ‘gutted’ but he was obviously gutted after the semi final loss, you could see that.
Against Palace we weren’t quite good enough with the resources we had left, so he doesn’t say or phrase things perfectly for some people. I think I can forgive him for that.
It’s something people can get over…
Not by me he isn’t, and you ask a very good question…
Not suggesting he doesn’t care or doesn’t want to win. It’s not about the manager, but hes made a choice all the same to speak for the project and not the fans. 2+2 is not 5.
If, getting in to the CL is “all That “, then why is Botch being castigated ?
This is all true but that doesn’t mean that winning domestic cup is more important than playing in the Champions League.
ENIC’s behaviour and Cups v Champions league… These are two separate discussions.
Poch is the ENIC mouthpiece. Do you for one second believe that poch believes what he is saying?
What’s the point in getting the champions League windfall if we are not going to use the money to strengthen the squad. The 50 million will just end up in uncle Joe’s back pocket.
He ‘wins’ enough matches to get into the Champions League with sod all resources. Does that make him a winner or a Weener? Discuss…
Poch is getting us to the ‘top table’ on shirt buttons.
That’s it, it’s Arsenal. We qualify, lose 10 nil on aggregate To Bayern every year but the sponsors are happy. Glory Glory.
“Weener “,
That’s not the choice at all. That is the inferred choice. What I would like is Poch saying something like ” we are gutted to be knocked out, now we must refocus all our efforts onto top 4″. Then behind closed doors call Levy out. If Poch wants to leave for us not winning a cup then he will go regardless of what he says to the press.
hear hear
My point is not what is more important…my issue is WHY is it more important if we are not going to use the perceived benefits to improve the squad to win anything. If CL qualification is it (we will not invest beyond what it takes to get there) I would rather win a trophy. If we got into the CL and invested in improving then top 4 all the time. Sadly its been 4yrs and still no CL quality players bought, we have developed a few though, and about to sell most of them this summer.
No they aren’t, he’s just said that he feels that top four is paramount for us at this time. At no point has he said that he doesn’t care or doesn’t want to win a pot.
We were a crossbar away from the final with depleted team in the week, but yeah, I guess he’s just not trying hard enough and doesn’t care…
What you have to ask yourself is, if you want Poch to go rogue on Levy and demand this and that to ‘win stuff’ we run the very real risk of losing a great coach.
Poch is always more likely to go than the owners, if he goes then with ENIC’s shit we win naff all and we also don’t play in the Champions League.
That’s the straight choice and I know what I prefer…
That’d be nice.
Absolutely embarrassing that ole had the nerve to comment on pochs goals and expectations for the season. Unfortunately unlike this united side poch hasn’t had 500 million to a assemble a squad that’s going to be able to compete on all fronts. Poch is having to prioritise what’s most important to the long term future of Tottenham Hotspur and unfortunately as frustrating as it is to be knocked out of both cups this week the league has to take priority. When we Casually throw 500 million into our squad then I expect us to be able to get in to the top 4 and actually have a good enough squad to compete and win domestic cups.
The problem is…without laying the right foundations you cant do both. By right foundations I mean squad depth. Players on the bench that offer something more than numbers. We cant rotate Kane if we want to win as we have no real back up, Son (there is Moura but that is a huge drop in quality), Alli (Lamela..sort of), Eriksen (no alternative), Central midfield…we barely have a starting line up let alone back ups. Defence is the ONLY place on the pitch where we could consider rotation through options with 2 right backs of equal measure (neither good enough, KWP is fast becoming first choice for me and he started season 3rd choice), Left back again, 2 players very dis-similar in skillset but similar in level. CB we are basically 3 deep in the PL’s best, with Foyth able to put a shift in too, and keeper we have an excellent back up.
I would say though, drawing Palace in the FA cup, and playing 8 London clubs in 9 games at a time when you are without possibly 3 of our most attacking players would trouble any team, even one with depth. – I am not saying we are blamless in those injuries though, if the above issue of depth was addressed, players could hav ebene rested.
Ive been saying to my gooner mates for years “we’ll win the champions league before you” I still believe that 100%
Wonder if Haringey borough (after winning the league) would be allowed to share the bus with them. Tom would say f u c k them we’ll hire our own!!
I think your issue is the “context” you are choosing is too narrow. Take the comments in context of ones like “We cant find anyone to improve the club”, and not buying anyone in the window. Plus the potential loss of 3 of our best players. The context is we are doing the bare minimum to get top 4. The club, and poch, is showing no interest in improving beyond top 4 to ever win anything. If we are at risk of losing top 4 we may buy someone./
Then there’s a problem, cos the context of his comments are moronical
A week sorry
I share Poch’s opinion. For us Champions League participation is more important than domestic cups.
If you don’t agree I respect that too but I think the majority of fans would rather be in the Champions League every year. No need to murder Poch for having a quite reasonable stance on it…
Ok – Order of priority in terms of long term benefits:
1) win the league or the CL
2) get in the CL
3) get out the group stages of the CL
4) win the Europa
5) Domestic cup
Thing is, why should you only get to choose one of the above? The point of point 1-3 is that they generate prestige and income for the club to improve their squad to then make it possible ot do all of above where possible. We have been in the CL for 4 yrs now? (or is it 3?) name 1 player we have bought that we couldn’t have got as a Europa side?
I’m sure their sponsors would much rather like them to be playing the big global box office fixtures against the Barca’s, Juve’s and Madrid’s. Sure, the cups too but the C.L is the big cheese.
I can’t stand ENIC either, but they don’t influence my opinion on what’s more important. If what I think happens to fall into their business model than so be it, I’m not a refusenik. I’d rather my nose stayed on my face.
Some teams have done doubles and trebles…..
We get a choice between one thing or another…… And one of those things isn’t even winning something!
“People wish we could win some trophies. But being realistic, we are doing so well.”
“Again we’re going to have the debate whether a trophy will take the club to the next level. I don’t agree with it. It only builds your ego. The most important thing for Tottenham right now is to always be in the top four.”
He is not saying he doesn’t want to win a cup, but basically he would rather be in the top 4…I am asking to what end? Why is it important if you are not going to use it to improve the club? What does top 4 give the fans at all if you are not improving the squad. The reason why “these words” have brought me to my conclusion is because in the context of 2 windows with no purchases despite arguably the most unbalanced side in Europe (in terms of first 11 vs cover players). Poch is basically saying if we get in to top 4, then its job done each year. On that regard we will only buy players if that starts to feel like a risk.
Anything that brings the electric open top bus please. To Untie the community and the fans.
I’m hoping this is Pochs way of saying “Daniel, I can’t compete with this squad, spend some fkin money”. I fear I’m wrong though & we’ve got more years of watching free kicks, corners etc being passed back to Lloris
Again with the one or other choice. It’s quite possible to do both you know? That’s if your club is run with a focus on playing staff. If we beat Palace we would have 4 extra matches if we won it. Like thatl derail our entire season?! Point is Levy has put us in a position where we cant cope with the fixtures we’ve got, the manager knows this and has taken the money and played along with the bullocks that by the look of it, some fans lap up.
John, peddle your propaganda somewhere else mate.
As Arsenal proved, fans don’t want to support a spreadsheet.
Fans want to win trophies.
Kindly refer to the Venn Diagram above and ask yourself which segment you would wish to be seen occupying.
The thing is, people don’t think these days, they just say stuff…
I think the point is, its one thing going out of the cups, its a whole other thing saying you don’t care. The teams we put out in the early stages do not suggest we didn’t take it seriously. giving Kane 15mins at Tranmere for what?
Did I dream it or did our very own Donna Cullen announce in the summer that there’s a transfer budget totally separate from the ground budget? I’m pretty sure she did, and so I ask where is it. I know they forgot there was a world cup on this summer and people may be knackered, but I can’t believe they forgot the window opened 29 days ago. Given they have had an extra few mknths to scout potential targets and do all the necessary research about said players availability etc. And that budget has gone up 9m as well with the dembele sale, would have been twice that in the summer but that’s great business for you. 2 days to stay out the way Daniel, not long now
Who remembers crying over TOTTENHAM as a youngster. Ill only cry again over TOTTENHAM when we are champions of Europe. TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR champions of Europe” I’m getting emotional now. Hurry up TOTTENHAM ive only got 30 odd seasons left in me. IT WILL HAPPEN. I know it
Or. Poch man please take some of this money the duffel bag is getting to full. No its ok boss I like doing things the hard way.
I think its more:
Poch; “Daniel, if you want cups as well as top 4 I’m going to need more squad depth”
Levy; “Ah, only problem is I’ve got this duffel bag and the C.L money needs to go in it for safe keeping”
Poch; Ok, ok… I will just keep telling the fans that CL is all we need and everything else is an ego boost…can I get a cut if it doesn’t all fit in the bag?
Easty,
The top table line doesn’t hold any water.
If it did, then why are Verts, Toby (and probably Eriksen) all off next summer?
Why did Bonzo leave, why does Rose want out?
The only club to pursue this business model to date are Arsenal and their fans ending up boycotting games.
Additionally, Ole will be aware that MUFC’s sponsorships are heavily dependent upon trophies.
Ask Jose for further details!
He’s not lying.
Seriously would anyone here be happy if we won the Caraboa Cup/FA Cup and missed out on the Top 4 and Champions League? Klopp managed to get out of both cups to concentrate on the league and Europe and no-one seems to care.
If we miss out on Top 4 it costs us 50m+ and gives that money to our direct competitors and people think this is ok????
As poch blabbers on about his project, the one thing he is failing to realize is the pieces of that project are getting older and likely to leave, meaning all his cognitive parts will be changing. Time is running out on this project of his and soon he won’t be able to defend his bs any longer. That’s when he parts ways. Spurs have become a business and that’s as deep as it goes, no passion for supporters, just concerned about bottome line. The club should be striving for more than just top four every year but poch wants to play this small club crap. New stadium and world class training grounds aren’t small club options. They won’t help anyway . That’s been proven
Why not just organise mass protests against ENIC at games/outside new stadium and boycott games. This team will never win anything unless oil money takes over anyway…just how it is.
Silly Poch. I do love the man, sometimes its easy to forget / ignore this type of sentiment because he has brought a lot of pride and excitement to our team. But, when we crash out of two cups in a week, he really didn’t need to chose this time to remind us all of that ugly side to this relationship, the one so many of us bury our heads in the sand to avoid – he is ENIC’s poster boy. He is Daniel’s lap dog. He is gloriously blinding the many with his charms, his humour, his wonderful changing hair colours, blinding us form the TRUTH!
The TRUTH is winning the competitions you are in is the whole, entire, sole reason for existing as a professional sports team. To supersede domestic competitions, like the FA Cup – the oldest club competition on earth, with a new metric of success – net spends, top 4, being “competitive”, is negligent to wards the fans.
I really do enjoy us under Poch, as a footballing side, but this attitude has to end. We are Arsenal without the trophies right now and that HAS to change.
Spot on. It’s Levy words out of a managers mouth. Wengeresque. Coming from a manager those comments sound insane.
Its spent on increasing salaries! check out next years accounts
Poch; “Daniel, if you want cups as well as top 4 I’m going to need more squad depth”
Levy; “Ah, only problem is I’ve got this duffel bag and the C.L money needs to go in it for safe keeping”
Poch; Ok, ok… it’s just that people keep asking me about winning shiny stuff”
There’s other elements to this. It’s a social engineering thing. I’m sure we are all aware of how competitive spirit and winning is being bred out of people through the education system. With kids getting prizes for just taking part and everyone is a winner. A top 4 qualification replacing actual winning seems another part of it, and it’s working. People actually are turning toward qualifying for a competition for financial reasons over winning. Danny Murphy was just talking about when he looks back over his career it’s the cups he remembers. They are the days that make it worthwhile, not the time you finish 4th. We are being adjusted. Beware.
As I read this blog now I can’t help feeling that we are all at it amongst ourselves as oppose to the real problem. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion, and quite right. Some like poch some don’t and that’s also acceptable. But the real crux of it is this. Due to a total lack of ambition, and investment we are now in a similar position to a pensioner deciding if they can eat or stay warm this week. That situation has occurred due to chronic mis management of a once great football club. Why the hell should a champs league side for the last few years, and 10th richest in the world have to choose between cups and leagues??? Because we have been left with a squad that showed itself in its true colours on Sunday. Piss poor. But cheap. Therein lies the problem
If I remember correctly it was £61 Million last season for the CL.
That was well spent wasn’t it?
Wait, what?
Nfl and 16 concerts will pay the little £mil odd a month for the stadium. I’m not worried about that at all. The debt AINT a problem according to my guy. Glory ambition is the real worry. We’ll see .
So are people that take his comments out of context…
No . But he did say that he felt like a “winner ” , maybe he meant “Werner ” .
I very much doubt Ole aimed these comments at Poch. the press may well angle it that way.
As for the rest of your comments…being in a competition you have no intention of winning, why not just rebrand THFC as a charity and donate money to them as they are no longer a sports club.
Sadly, I think you’ve nailed it.
We all knew it what he was thinking, but why in the name of god he said it out loud is anyone’s guess.
Il take a trophy. Problem is thanks to Levy we are a club with a giant albatross around our neck and no CL qualification will leave us with a giant empty NFL stadium v dynamo plovdiv. Then again, it’s beyond our core support anyway so the whole thing is one giant clusterFuck. I agree with what you said below sacrificing everything for a competition you can never win for financial profit for the owners and we may as well close doors.
We won the League Cup over 10 years ago under these clowns and almost got relegated the following season. So you’d rather us go back to that?
Only me has stolen my thunder a little, but his points are valid. If the champs league is the be all and end all, surely it means your gojng to attract a better level of player? Due to the increase in your revenues you can afford them so that’s not an argument as to why you don’t get them. This is the best we ever had it is banded about quite alot as well. We’ll if trippier, nocluedo, lamela, skipp and llorente are as good as we ever had it, we done fucking well in the past to win anything at all. And the other beauty of winning something, anything is that things like naming rights deals, sponsorship deals are easier to negotiate, as people want to be associated with winners, not mediocrity.
POCH NEVER SAID HE DIDN’T WANT TO WIN A CUP.
‘These words’ did not appear in isolation, take them in the context in which he said it and as you watch the presser you can see clearly what he meant. All he’s saying is that the priority is top 4, that’s it. Winning cups is good for your ‘ego’.
At what point did he say he didn’t want to win a cup?
Botch is a Moron .
Silly thing for Poch to say.If it had come from levy ,you wouldnt have been suprised (or any greedy chairman) It shows how much Football has become a business to everyone accept the people those who should matter “The Fans”. However if you want to buy 50 million pound players and win things ,you do need Champions League money.
Just a shame that fact came from the manager.
Would rather champion’s league, but we must use the money we make to invest in new players. Let the money earned from the American games pay for the stadium
I said yesterday, these words for me mean that either he is a loser, he is ultimately useless and not good enough…or he is a company stooge at the expense of his own self. I am would prefer to think he is the first as then at least you know he is doing what he thinks is best.
As of Solskjaer, I have met him, a couple of times, each time I spent close to an hour with him pretty much 1 on 1, once with his wife and him many years ago (he was still a player). I can categorically say that he is one of the most genuine, nicest person I have ever met (I don’t just mean nicest famous, I mean in any walk of life). This makes me think if he said this comment (which from meeting him years ago is possible as he is a winner) it was to answer a direct question, not an attack on another person. The likelihood is he was asked directly how seriously he is taking the cup considering Man United league position.
We shall soon find out.
I have supported Spurs for 50+ years and am disgusted by the ENIC model. No passion or love there other than for the balance sheet! Fair play to Solskjaer for showing what a dick his main rival was for spouting his bosses mantra.
By the way, what position did Spurs end up in for the 1948/49 season? Was it 4th and who gives a fuck!?
For those asking “what would you prefer, a cup or top 4” my answer is simple and 2 fold…
1) lets see if we beat Watford considering we sacrificed the cup
2) What is the point in going to the CL each season if you don’t use it to buy better players. The prestige and money seem to have led to us not improving our squad at all. One could argue we saw greater squad improvements not being in it.
Certainly ill advised, but as usual the media and assorted bods are jumping on the first available opportunity to slag of Spurs (via Poch’s comments).
Firstly, there is nothing wrong with what Poch has said and I agree with him, because I take them within the context they were made.
Spurs have won one trophy under ENIC, the League Cup in 08, does anyone care? Did anyone care a couple of months after we won it? Could you tell me (without Google) the recent winners of the Spanish, Italian or any of the continental domestic cups for that matter?
I bet the spread of knowledge across the world about who played in the Champions League and certainly who reached quarter final stage would be far greater, in fact most people that follow football to any degree would probably know.
‘Top four’ might not have shiny tin pot to stick in the cabinet attached to it but sadly the world has changed and it bloody well should have. The prestige, the raise in profile of the club globally and the prestige and financial rewards from Champions League participation outstrip compared to the League Cup and FA Cup by an indisputable degree.
Poch is adamant that for a club like Spurs, with the level of spending on the team that Champions League football is paramount and of course he is absolutely right. Then we hear his detractors cry “you can finish in the top four AND win a pot”. Really? At club where we only have about 10 players of the required quality and compete when 5 of those are missing or returning injury ?
People are talking complete bollocks and so is the Norwegian ‘Manc’.
Our mate Ole, has also, I might remind everyone won nothing apart from something out on the frozen tundra involving all weather pitches and crowds of about 8,000. He has son far been an abject failure in English football management. However, the press set him up with a’response’ to Poch’s ego comment, the rest is played as to be expected by the usual suspects that make a living via a’presence’ on social media.
Now it’s a given that Manure will surely overtake Spurs into 3rd place, however, quite clearly Ole isn’t as convinced and he’s talking up the cups as a lift to a Utd season that was at one point dead in the water. Does anyone actually believe that Manure would prefer to win the ONE domestic cup on offer to them and play in the Ropey League next season?
If no ‘cups’ meant a place at Europe’s top table next season, Ole and Manure would take that all day long. He’s lying.
As poch blabbers on about his project, the one thing he is failing to realize is the pieces of that project are getting older and likely to leave, meaning all his cognitive parts will be changing. Time is running out on this project of his and soon he won’t be able to defend his bs any longer. That’s when he parts ways. Spurs have become a business and that’s as deep as it goes, no passion for supporters, just concerned about bottome line. The club should be striving for more than just top four every year but poch wants to play this small club crap. New stadium and world class training grounds aren’t small club options. They won’t help anyway . That’s been proven
Oops sorry mate wrong question. Its been a long day!
* So how much is £600 mil over 10 years? 520 X £1mil odd?
So how much is £600m a week over ten years roughly? 520 weeks X £1mil odd?
You are joking right? Ffs. This is Haringey!!
He didn’t use the word ‘gutted’ but he was obviously gutted after the semi final loss, you could see that.
Against Palace we weren’t quite good enough with the resources we had left, so he doesn’t say or phrase things perfectly for some people. I think I can forgive him for that.
It’s something people can get over…
Why not just organise mass protests against ENIC at games/outside new stadium and boycott games. This team will never win anything unless oil money takes over anyway…just how it is.
Why would you want to have gooner mates ffs?
what are you smoking sell some to Levy
Some teams have done doubles and trebles…..
We get a choice between one thing or another…… And one of those things isn’t even winning something!
As I read this blog now I can’t help feeling that we are all at it amongst ourselves as oppose to the real problem. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion, and quite right. Some like poch some don’t and that’s also acceptable. But the real crux of it is this. Due to a total lack of ambition, and investment we are now in a similar position to a pensioner deciding if they can eat or stay warm this week. That situation has occurred due to chronic mis management of a once great football club. Why the hell should a champs league side for the last few years, and 10th richest in the world have to choose between cups and leagues??? Because we have been left with a squad that showed itself in its true colours on Sunday. Piss poor. But cheap. Therein lies the problem
Silly Poch. I do love the man, sometimes its easy to forget / ignore this type of sentiment because he has brought a lot of pride and excitement to our team. But, when we crash out of two cups in a week, he really didn’t need to chose this time to remind us all of that ugly side to this relationship, the one so many of us bury our heads in the sand to avoid – he is ENIC’s poster boy. He is Daniel’s lap dog. He is gloriously blinding the many with his charms, his humour, his wonderful changing hair colours, blinding us form the TRUTH!
The TRUTH is winning the competitions you are in is the whole, entire, sole reason for existing as a professional sports team. To supersede domestic competitions, like the FA Cup – the oldest club competition on earth, with a new metric of success – net spends, top 4, being “competitive”, is negligent to wards the fans.
I really do enjoy us under Poch, as a footballing side, but this attitude has to end. We are Arsenal without the trophies right now and that HAS to change.
If that were true and we don’t make the CL then we’re stuck with a wage bill we can’t pay. That’s not how Levy does things.
Rubbish
There’s other elements to this. It’s a social engineering thing. I’m sure we are all aware of how competitive spirit and winning is being bred out of people through the education system. With kids getting prizes for just taking part and everyone is a winner. A top 4 qualification replacing actual winning seems another part of it, and it’s working. People actually are turning toward qualifying for a competition for financial reasons over winning. Danny Murphy was just talking about when he looks back over his career it’s the cups he remembers. They are the days that make it worthwhile, not the time you finish 4th. We are being adjusted. Beware.
I’m not listening to this guano any more and people insist upon posting it, then it will not be on here.
Already cleared out one shower of losers, I am not looking to replace them.
We’ve had all the debates, and if you’re pro ENIC then you’re wrong.
John, your wretched justification bores me, if I was you I would kill myself.
Its spent on increasing salaries! check out next years accounts