Home » Editorial: Have Spurs been punked out by Conte or is it, Levy, again?

Editorial: Have Spurs been punked out by Conte or is it, Levy, again?

By Harry Hotspur -

The jury was in some while ago, Conte-ball is Mourinho-ball, just minus your prejudices. But that’s okay because when we’re winning, and pretty much everyone else is pointing out how bad to watch the football is, you can still criticise, and it just gets lost in the mix. Nobody could ever realise you’re being inconsistent.

Looking at Tottenham’s numbers, after having wasted another hour and half of my life watching this particular brand of top-flight football, it’s pretty obvious that this squad is struggling to approach games in a sufficiently assertive manner.

Conte’s boys failed to demonstrate anything approaching the required levels of flair one might hope to see from any Champions League side, let alone a Tottenham one. To me, Conte looks to have overtrained them; they don’t get going until they catch their second wind and that’s been the case all season.

We looked tired and were largely pressed out of it by an effective, but unexceptional Sporting Lisbon – if we’re honest with ourselves. Is Supporting going to make the last 8 of the Champions League? With all the goodwill in the world, that feels ambitious.

Tottenham looks to all intents and purposes only marginally improved from the mob that stank out the Europa Conference League.

We know that there are some fine players at Spurs, but that’s been the same ‘go-to’ default position for far too many years now.

What we’re looking at, after not just one game but all the games so far this season, is a different shade of stagnation from the last guy. Spurs are way deep in the hole. I referred to Spurs’ transfer deficit as a £119million hole in the boat. Here we established that Levy’s net spend was £118million.

The new regime has won over many of the fans. Paratici is cooking and Conte’s name is readily sung. But the reality is within the gaffer’s words, telling us it’s now two or three windows to get where we need to be. At this point, our elder players will be approaching their pensions.

This club has underspent on quality which will provide an immediate benefit, and overspent on junk that can’t even be loaned out without the wages being heavily subsidised.

I called Pochettino a patsy, and now I’m calling Conte one, which is easy to do when you’re not in their position, being paid over a million each month.

There are voices bleating we should have sent on Spence and Bissouma, the inspiration is suffocating.

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Chirpy
Chirpy
8 days ago

Sonny and Royal attacking passengers. Again. Not the only culprits, but a pretty common theme across the season and they both start every game.

Everyone can see Royal is very limited in that role. We have two or three players we play there, or even bring on for 20/30. But the coach does not do it

Sonny, wonderful player of course, is having a torrid time and it is having a detrimental effect on the side. We bought Richarlison for situations like this, but our most in-form and creative attacker Kulusevski gets dropped instead. Again, on the Coach.

To those bemoaning the lack of a creative midfielder….Conte has clearly decided this isn’t how he wants to play. He has loaned out two players that could do it, and if he wanted one we’d have signed on (even a cheap one if that is your viewpoint).

He wanted a squad and he is not using it. We are making so few subs compared to other sides. Ridiculous.

That being said, it is early days in a long season. Sooner or later things will turn I feel. It may take an injury or suspension.

Last edited 8 days ago by Chirpy
CzechSpur
CzechSpur
8 days ago
Reply to  Chirpy

1) The two players he loaned out couldn’t do it. If they could provide anything of worth to the current squad, they’d be kept on (on the bench at least, to change things up). But Ndom can’t be arsed to stay fit for more than a week and GLC’s only priority at Spurs has been to get loaned back out to Spain.

2) Conte wanted a squad and he isn’t using it – isn’t that a rather clear indicator that the squad he got wasn’t the squad he wanted? Maybe Bissouma still isn’t match fit or used to the tactics or something, but other than that – Perisic is 1st choice, Richy is doing okay, Lenglet might be rotated, Spence is a punt, Forster is likely to see a couple of minutes in the cups, if that, and Udogie is back at Udinese.

3) As for RBs, Doherty, I think, is still coming back from injury, and Spence has work to do to step up. Conte himself said he was not of the required standard yet.

All in all, it’s slow building. The summer amounted to getting in 2 first-team players (Perisic and Richy), two more who might be rotated (Lenglet and Bissouma), a back-up keeper, and some jam tomorrow.

Three windows to go. Let’s see if Conte stays that long.

Chirpy
Chirpy
8 days ago
Reply to  CzechSpur

Doherty was playing in pre-season games. We are now mid-September, absolutely no reason we have not seen him come on for 20 here and there, especially seeing how poor Royal is at times. Then there is Spence, who has proven he can perform against PL sides for Forest. Conte has said Moura is an option. Someone. Anyone!!

Sonny has had 8 games now, and as much as class is permanent and all that jazz, he is now actively hurting the side. Why should it be the ever-impressive Kulusevski who misses out?

The problem with Conte is I don’t think he knows how to manage a squad. All the flouncing last season was show

Chirpy
Chirpy
7 days ago
Reply to  Harry Hotspur

He was flying before he got injured to be fair. I’m not claiming he is prime Alves, of course, but it is an upgrade on Royal.

Wingback is his position after all – he was good for about 4 goals and 4/5 assists for a very pragmatic Wolves from that position. He got 2 goals and 4 assists for Conte from limited minutes last season.

Urbane Sturgeon
Urbane Sturgeon
7 days ago
Reply to  Chirpy

I think you may be underestimating Son’s contribution and overestimating Kulusevski’s just a tad, respectively.

Chirpy
Chirpy
7 days ago

Not sure you can underestimate how poor Sonny has been this season. By any metric you’d have Deki over him on current form

Archibald&Crooks (SC)
Archibald&Crooks (SC)
7 days ago
Reply to  Chirpy

Chirpy we don’t need an AM as the press comes from the WBs. If 50% of the WBs is not fit for purpose where does the fault lie?
It looks to me as if Conte is one of a long line of Spurs managers who sign a player and then say “in 6 months/12 months they may be ready”.
How has Bissouma suddenly become “not tactically aware”? I really dont understand.
Drill it into him if Potter could do it i’m sure you can.
How come you blank Spence he has all the equipment to become a top WB yet you stick to Emerson who Gold has just confirmed was available to leave in the Summer.
You are a confusing little man Tonio and I am getting sick of your extreme highs and lows I wonder if he is on the spectrum.

Archibald&Crooks (SC)
Archibald&Crooks (SC)
9 days ago

And yes I am HP you are our coach and I dont want any other atm but you have been presiding over a shite storm waiting to happen for ages but do you give Son a 60 min rest no you drop Kulu who is in better form. Is Emerson ever going to become a functioning WB? Do PEH & Bentancur rip up oppenents midfields?
Grow a pair Conte.

JimmyGrievance
JimmyGrievance
9 days ago

“We know that there are some fine players at Spurs, but that’s been the same ‘go-to’ default position for far too many years now.”

For every fine player there are two that are hopeless. That’s the bigger problem. Our transfer policy has seen to it for decades that we rarely buy what we actually need.

A good example of this is the fact we now host 5 defensive MF and 0 creative MF We have no outlet. We want to play with WB’s but buy full backs. We still only have the one (aging) CF.

Is it because Levy still micro manages the club to the enth degree. Of course it is. The manager may change the policy never does.

Conte a patsy ? Yep he sure is.

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  JimmyGrievance

Conte came with a reputation for being a ‘genius’ at converting players into his type of wing back – he needs to work that trick again, we have bodies…

JimmyGrievance
JimmyGrievance
8 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

That’s all they are, bodies, they’re not footballers

Lilywhite worried about Conte
Lilywhite worried about Conte
9 days ago
Reply to  JimmyGrievance

How dare you speak truth…off with your head..

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  JimmyGrievance

Looks like it, on those sort of wages you don’t bite the hand that feeds. Clearly…

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
JimmyGrievance
JimmyGrievance
8 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

Absolutely

Paddio
Paddio
9 days ago

Conte gets a pass because of what he has been given.
I’m sure Poch had similar issues in his 2nd season (remember a post about the amount of draws).
With Royal seemingly our best RWB and we recruited players ready for the training pitch, is it any wonder we see what we get?
The club has flip-flopped on the philosophy of playing style, and DNA has been binned as a coined phrase.
We don’t have a joined-up plan throughout the whole playing structure of the club, it was a mess which was one of the big things Paratici was recruited to sort.
Paratici started that we would only play with a back 4 (hence Nuno had less than no chance)
Though don’t forget, Conte’s contract only runs until next summer.

Deano
Deano
9 days ago
Reply to  Paddio

Thank god

Tangangry
Tangangry
9 days ago

Running into space, faster passing, knowing what you’re going to do with it before the ball even reaches you.

This is what good football teams seem to execute with a degree of skill that makes it look effortless. We see it for maybe 5 minutes in each game? Results holding up, but can’t last.

I’m gonna come out and say it: I don’t like the formation. We are screaming out for someone in the centre circle pulling the strings. Bentencur had that look about him, seems to have lost it now though.

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  Tangangry

The evidence so far…the bigger the game the less you get from Bentancur.

His homework is to improve his ‘big game’ form.

CzechSpur
CzechSpur
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Turned into Winks Mk. II recently. Got to improve.

Dilly
Dilly
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Devoid of a quality creative midfielder of Modric ilk what does Bentancur actually contribute? added to the list of overloaded holding midfielders?!!

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  Dilly

Too many defensive midfielders.

Dilky
Dilky
9 days ago
Reply to  Tangangry

It’s hardly rocket science that we have failed to replace Modric. On his day Eriksen was good but IMO Modric was better. Needless to say continually haunted Levy by the insane collapsed signing of Jack Grealish in 2016 I rest my case!!Quality creative midfielders are seemingly in scarce supply so when a good un like JG is available for a relatively modest figure you simply have to accomplish the deal! Alas Levy botched the deal. The rest is history.

Last edited 9 days ago by Dilky
Dilky
Dilky
9 days ago
Reply to  Dilky

2018 not 2016

Marbella Spur
Marbella Spur
9 days ago
Reply to  Dilky

It’s not the only deal he botched, the list is too numerous to mention. Penny wise, pound foolish still after twenty three years.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  Marbella Spur

Yep

Archibald&Crooks (SC)
Archibald&Crooks (SC)
9 days ago
Reply to  Marbella Spur

The names we missed actually make you wince (Hazard/Salah/Suarez etc) but Mane was the biggest in my eyes. The forst time he played at WHL for Bindip FC he was magnificent and yes I read somebody months ago defending the Grealish non deal (Goldy?) but my info disagreed with the party line he did his low offer shute again and they got investment.
There are many but one of the things I hate about Levy (and every non entity who kisses his ‘arris) is his stating on the record that “oooh we did spend big on Toyboy Ndonkey and look what happened” you signed it off shortstop how come you couldnt sign off on Mane?

Lord Croker
Lord Croker
9 days ago
Reply to  Tangangry

Maybe his instructions are to be conservative in possession, look for the safe pass even if it means passing backwards. Just another view.

Modric was magic. He has never been replaced. I’d go crazy and stick Kane in midfield alternating with Richie and Son up front in possession. He has an attacking instinct.

Brick Top
Brick Top
9 days ago

I’ve been trying to analyse the formation and style of play compared to the teams that are performing well at the moment. You look at Shakthar and Napoli, both had big wins against Leipzig and L’pool respectively. Both teams play with an inverted left winger/playmaker. Mudryk scored one and had 2 assists. Kvicha(signed for €10m, recruiting??) had only one assist, but largely dominated against the Scousers. Milan won the league last season and inverted left winger Leao was their star player. It works because right backs are often the weak point, we needn’t look any further than to Royal.

Our style brings about congestion in the middle of the final third. Only Perisic provides any attacking outlet when Kulu is not playing, curiously down the left flank. He’s often wasted having to defend deep. Inverted winger Kulu was a big hit last season and has performed well so far this season. He has to start every game, the only real baller with unpredictability in the squad. The style is flat, been found out, and the formation doesn’t suit the players. The only way to make it work is to use Perisic and Kulu as WB’s and get them to bombard the box with crosses to Kane and Richy. I think Conte wants to bulldoze teams with physicality and grit, hence our recent signings. It’s just not working. We’re flat, slow, uncreative and there’s no space in behind to run in. Maureen understood the value of space on the counter, which explains the Golden Kane and Son combo. It’s completely non-existent today because there’s no space to run in and Kane gets jumped as soon as he gets the ball.

If either Kulu or Perisic are injured we’re basically nullified offensively. In which case a change in formation is logical. Either 433 or 4231. I’d opt for the latter at this rate. Kulu would be capable of playing as a no. 10 with Perisic and Son on the wings. I think Son would perform a lot better as a winger. He looks neutered and miserable. Constantly faced away from goal when receiving the ball. Playing with some width and attacking face to goal from the middle tends to work. And I’ll say this; the best teams in Europe don’t use 3 at the back. We’re pretty solid defensively, but completely ineffective at front. A back four of Davies, Lenglet, Dier and Romero should be sufficient enough.

I’m not calling for Conte’s head. He did a fantastic job last season. But here we are, it’s looking bad and something has to change. I think overtraining is less the issue and more a case of formation and style(or lack thereof). Outdated and we’ve been found out. I don’t consider our squad magnificent, but in all fairness we should play teams like Marseille and Sporting off the pitch.

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  Brick Top

Fair assessment – we are too reliant on Kane’s ‘magic radar’ through balls and long passing, and he’s malfunctioning in that regard right now.

As you say we have pace in the squad with Son and Kulu and don’t seem to be utilising it too well.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Nobody can play a telling pass from midfield…

Marbella Spur
Marbella Spur
9 days ago
Reply to  Brick Top

I agree with much of this. Yes, we have been found out and it’s our predictability that is our Achilles heel. The WBs are clearly a problem but the real problem is midfield where there is zero creativity and the ability to dribble past an opponent to create space as Dembele did for us with Eriksen providing the passes. These two players have never been replaced and Bentancur struggles to impose himself when the game is played at pace. I hate Conte’s system but I give him credit for qualifying for the CL but I cannot see us going very far in this competition. In truth, we are crying out for a player like Mudryk but sadly Levy’s Holy Grail is a top four place and that is the height of his ambition. If you watched the Bayern Barca game, you would have seen how far behind our so called peers we really are.

Lord Croker
Lord Croker
9 days ago
Reply to  Brick Top

Cheers 👍

at large
at large
9 days ago

In simple terms, we’re a difficult watch when getting results.
With no results it’s simply a waste of time.

coys1882
coys1882
9 days ago

I think there is a tendency to over-react in the face of a disappointing defeat such as this H. Truthfully, we played better than we did against Marseille, against a better opponent. The only difference is a couple of fine goals from Richarlison saved our bacon against the French outfit, whereas last night, after a decent enough second half that we basically controlled, we were treated to the opposite outcome.

Notwithstanding the above, there are points worthy of criticism. Conte’s non-usage of his sub’s bench was bizaarre. Davies clearly struggled all night to create anything and wasn’t on the same page as Perisic, so I would have brought on Lenglet (I would actually have played him from the start). The midfield duo were clearly tiring late on, so why not bring on Bissouma and Skipp? Kulu also should have been brought on earlier, in place of Emerson.

I don’t feel we ‘deserved’ to lose, but we didn’t do enough to ‘deserve’ to win and we were punished. Freshening up the starting XI with proper use of a strong subs bench, in sapping heat, would surely have been the right way to go. Similarly not settling for a hard won point, as we entered injury time, seemed tactically naive. A tiring team was losing it’s shape in the last 5 minutes of normal time, yet the subs stayed on the bench.

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  coys1882

If we’d been clinical in attack we’d have deserved to win…but we weren’t.

This lack of composure and conviction up front is hobbling our season more than anything.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

How many clear cut quality chances are we creating for our forward players? The more chances created, the more chances to score. All forwards miss chances, if you don’t create a volume of chances to either score or miss with… Well, do the maths.

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

It was a cagey away CL fixture but we had more chances, yet they capitalised on less.

They looked far more clinical in the final third, seems a massive problem to me. Kane in particular is fluffing his lines, he usually creates about three chances for himself and three for others. At the moment near zilch.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

It’s not been about one cagey game though. it’s become a theme in almost every game we play…

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

I think if Kane and Son had their shooting boots on this season we’d have won every game – seriously, margins have been fine on the draws and this first loss

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

My take is that we aren’t creating enough decent chances, you can’t expect forwards to be clinical all the time. You have to keep feeding them and they hit their stride and find confidence again. That’s not easy feeding off scraps…

Dino
Dino
8 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

That is true but by & large the first touch for both Kane & son is often woeful…all too often our midfield gets the ball & it goes backwards… surely every team has figured us out… press them high up the pitch or challenge them to break us down & hit them on the counter… let’s see what Arsenal turn up next week…. we could easily lose that 4-0… or scrape a 2-0 win via smash & grab

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago

The squad isn’t bad. The manager isn’t bad. Our star player isn’t bad. Our second best player isn’t bad. Our recent transfer activity isn’t bad. Our season so far isn’t bad. So what is bad?

Nothing is ‘bad’ – compared to 12 months ago it’s positively orgasmic.

But something (our play) is a bit poor and it needs to improve but i’m not going to go around saying any of the above are bad yet. Because, if you apply logic and perspective, none of the above has been bad.

This is not to say it couldn’t fall apart – but people embarrassing themselves saying ‘Conte out’ and thinking we have ‘a divine right to be as good as City by now’ – if other fans of clubs did this we’d point and laugh. News just in…we DO have a reputation for coming across as entitled as a fanbase.

I want improvement but nothing is actively awful, plenty of room for improvement, restraint and patience, there will be a time to make big calls (such as the manager being sacked) but it isn’t now.

judge
judge
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

absolutely correct === 24 hours has elapsed and its as though some we’re aching for this to happen === get a life and just SUPPORT your team right when you’re needed most . C O Y S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  judge

I think there are two ways last season was viewed by Spurs fans.

The first is Conte achieved what he wanted, to instil some sort of belief/guts and a playing style. He worked out ‘his’ players. He did this all in a pragmatic, slightly dogged and dull way, but he achieved. this season he’s raised his ambitions, it took a while last season…so some fans give him that benefit.

Or…other fans accept he did achieve but my god it wasn’t all that scintillating or entertaining, they put him ‘on notice’ and he’s up against it from the off. They want Conte’s ambition this season to be to play ‘easier on the eye’ football and there’s a realisation that might not be an outright ambition as such.

Both are I guess valid but the latter does feel a smidgen misty eyed and/or entitled.

at large
at large
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

A third way is that Conte is playing a style most conducive to the talent provided and like the countless others before him is destined to fail.

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  at large

Well that’s not believing Conte is an intelligent coach in the most basic of facets and is therefore dismissed by most?

at large
at large
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

No, I think the fault is partially Conte’s for playing an insipid style, but mostly on ENIC for not properly backing him with the pieces required.

We do not have an attacking midfield player. Hence we try to play out from the wing.

But we only have one acceptable wingback, so all attacks must come from the left side unless somehow Kulu gets some room along the right.

We did not acquire a quality left-sided CB. Hence we have the Statue of Davies backing up and allowing the Sporting winger to cut inside and fire a shot at Lloris that led to the corner and then the game winner.

We do not have adequate depth that Conte trusts. Hence he does not make substitutions to change the game when change is required.

Is this Conte’s fault or management? I think both.

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  at large

Conte walked in and he found he had about 7 players he could rely on…he now has at least 14.

Progress is being made and it’s too slow for you. Maybe it’s too slow for Conte, but the trajectory is up.

Our best players are in a rut and that’s partially down to the manager but also it’s more than that and really to judge this team I think we need a period with our star players playing in form to see what’s possible.

RWB is a concern for certain. Lenglet/Davies looks an adequate pairing for now but can be improved.

Attacking mid…I’m just more of the opinion we just need a rolls royce midfielder of any kind really. A Kante, a Rice, etc etc. I was hoping Bissouma could be that player but so far something’s up. If it’s a real problem we go again because that’s what makes the best teams, the star midfielder.

at large
at large
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

I keep hearing we’re a big team, have world class facilities yada yada. So when are we going to play like a big team?

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  at large

A question United fans have been asking for about 12 years now.

Sometimes the stars need to align…Liverpool were average under Klopp for a fair old time.

I think patience for now, Conte could be the manager to make us purr…but also, if he isn’t we will need to move on.

I’d like to think the team will never sink as low as under Nuno again though – that put us back two seasons. Conte is doing his best but my lord, Nuno left us at rock rock bottom. Everton last season level, truly worrying.

at large
at large
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

I hear you. It’s hard to be patient after so many years of dross. Certainly we’re improved from a year ago, but that’s a low bar for sure.

Regarding Kane, as someone noted here earlier, might it be that he’s playing at less than 100% effort to make sure he’s not injured for the WC?

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  at large

Kane seems to be finding a reason to go on ‘semi-strike’ the first half of every season 😉

Maybe he also feels he’s closer to the exit door again, or contract issues are playing on his mind?

Then, he is renowned for starting seasons slowly anyway.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Semi-strike? That doesn’t even make sense…

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  at large

Probably the lowest bar for well over a decade…

HotspurGeezer
HotspurGeezer
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Great point!
& not forgetting Sir Alex Ferguson needed about 4 seasons before he led Manchester United to winning an FA Cup.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

The dysfunction found in some other clubs is irrelevant, all Utd fans want the Glazers out because of the directionless mess that club has become under them.

That’s a bit like you comparing now to 12 months ago at Spurs, you keep asking us to compare ourselves to an absolute nadir. These really should not be the barometer’s to use, you’re just attempting to make things look better by comparing it to something completely sh*te, to fit the narrative.

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  at large

Exactly.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Conte walked in and he found he had about 7 players he could rely on…he now has at least 14.

So why are we unable to beat inferior opponents?

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

We have beaten most inferior opponents this season…this particular game was also so close it could have gone either way (as much as that’s still not good enough).

But..we’ve played better than this under Conte than recently and with a weaker squad/not as many options.

Why this is could be a lot of things but Conte and his team need to work it out as they know the state of the squad a lot better anyone else.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Things need to improve, we can only keep ‘lucking-out’ for so long, as Sporting’s late flurry showed. We need to take the game to the opposition more and have the ball more, if and when it’s required. This isn’t just about ‘pretty’ football, this is about changing the record occasionally…

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Fair point, but more than that, it could halt our progress in Europe and cost us league points…

Billy Tonsils
Billy Tonsils
9 days ago
Reply to  judge

Listen to you on your high horse ..deciding who and who doesn’t support Spurs ffs ..
Last night Sporting did to us what we had hoped to do to them simple .just as we did to 10 man Marseille,.their counters were better they had more shots on target and scored more goals ..is it the end of the world No ..does it signify we need to rotate the squad more I hope so ..that was another poor performance in a CL group many on here thought we would walk..it’s the deluded fools blinded by the ever dimming light that need to check their heads.

Last edited 9 days ago by Billy Tonsils
SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  Billy Tonsils

It is very rare any side, other maybe than the best two or three best teams in Europe, will ever ‘walk a CL group’.

The draw was comparatively kind but I don’t think I heard too many fans say it would be easy. It looks a balanced group more or less and that’s what’s playing out.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Conte’s European record is abysmal…

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

I’m sure he’s aware of that and wants to improve on it – sometimes these things are an unfortunate quirk or he needs to find a different approach.

In terms of Spurs there’s an argument we’re ‘punching’ having him as manager rather than the other way round…I’m not sure there’s a queue of CL winning coaches waiting for Levy’s call. The bloke saved us from not just mediocrity but potentially total embarrassment PLUS got us back to the big boys table on top of that.

His CV has a weakness – not a surprise. Just keeping an open mind for now.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Sure, but so far we’ve hardly bucked that trend in the first two European games. It’s a long season, we’ll see but I don’t see us doing anything in Europe from what we’ve seen so far…

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

I don’t expect too much, anything will be a bonus, because after less than a full season under Conte we aren’t really ready – there are stories of complete turnarounds in teams within 12-18 months of a new manager but they’re rare.

We should be good enough to navigate the group but also I wouldn’t be surprised to see us exit if we continue in this form (which is effectively ‘rolling the dice’ more than we should be). We should overpower teams like Sporting last night with this squad and being potentially a top 4 PL side.

Billy Tonsils
Billy Tonsils
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

What you heard and reality are clearly not the same thing.

judge
judge
9 days ago
Reply to  Billy Tonsils

No ‘high horse ‘ here – just a fan who doesn’t overeact to adversity .
This result was bound to happen at some stage and now is the time when Conte shows his mettle . We think he’s the business [ I know I do ] and I wanna stand up and say it , okay ?
A poor performance , and two very late goals [ albeit preventable] have conspired to bring about a volley of abuse
We’ve never been different , Spurs fans are their own worst enemy and I’ve always hated that . Conte will rise to this , no doubts ……….

Billy Tonsils
Billy Tonsils
9 days ago
Reply to  judge

Trust me it wasn’t a volley of abuse..it simply pointed out that we aren’t playing well we have ground out / been lucky in some games ..and yet there is a reticence to use the bench .Why ? Not like we are a team of sparkles is it…our only consistent performer is Peresic at 33 yrs.
If I am DJed Spence and I am being told that “I need to earn the right” to replace Royal I m thinking I was warned I was warned.
Conte wouldn’t let Gil go..Bissouma was hailed by all and sundry as a great early doors signing ..what’s the problem..can he not be programmed like the other automatons .
We are poor.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  Billy Tonsils

Bissouma looked like a solid signing, but that’s largely irrelevant when he’s got three similar midfielders ahead of him. I see Skipp playing more than him if he gets fit. Bissouma, Spence and the others (apart from Perisic) were not players Conte ‘wanted’. They never are at Spurs, for any manager so when people like Alasdair Gold come out and say that “Spence was a signing for Conte” (because he plays wingback), they should really also say “but he actually wanted someone else instead”…

East Stand
East Stand
8 days ago
Reply to  Billy Tonsils

Unless you have blind faith, you aren’t a real fan. This pance is trotted out regularly by some, I’m always curious as to who they actually think they represent. Because it generally feels like ENIC…

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  judge

Get a life, and have a problem with the team you support playing like cr*p.

HotspurGeezer
HotspurGeezer
9 days ago
Reply to  judge

Ditto.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

Anything is better than 12 months ago, perhaps try to use a more relevant barometer?

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

It’s the only barometer

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

you want to remove the context of the job he walked into?

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

The state of the footballing side was purely down to the people that run the club. Conte is a very good manager, but it was obvious to me once people who knew nothing about football started to take their hands off a little bit, and allow the manager to get on with his job, things started to improve.

Conte did a very good job last season, I’m just trying to work out where it goes this season. I don’t believe he’s been backed in quite the way people like to make out this summer. So there are several different factors to consider, particularly Conte’s very poor record in Europe.

So I’m not particularly convinced that we are a team ‘going places’, based on the transfer activity of the summer and the lack of improvement and to the first 11. We have added some much-needed depth in a few areas but we are not transformed and I don’t expect huge strides on last season. We could win a domestic cup, even Arsenal managed to do that a couple of years ago. We’ll see how it goes, but we’re going to have to improve significantly to do anything important this season. The two Champions League matches have not inspired, let’s be honest…

HotspurGeezer
HotspurGeezer
9 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

But Antonio Conte has said he’s ok with the summer business done & THFC need another 2 or 3 transfer windows (may have been 3 or 4?), so sadly for all of us, patience again, but now for THIS manager should be afforded, shouldn’t it?

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  HotspurGeezer

His contract expires in just over 12 months…

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  HotspurGeezer

No coach/manager ever comes out at a top club and says that they’re not happy about what their employers are doing, it never happens. So Conte saying he’s ‘ok’ with things is the same as any other manager saying it, it’s meaningless. Plus, his comment about needing more transfer windows doesn’t mean he intends to still be at the club when those three windows have passed. I reckon unless the next two improve us markedly, he’s off. His contract expires in just over 12 months…

Average Joe OED
Average Joe OED
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

we DO have a reputation for coming across as entitled as a fanbase.”

Very glad to see someone else pointing this out. Spurs’ fanbase often reminds me of Statler and Waldorf sitting up in the balcony back in the Muppet days.

This match should have been bossed. It wasn’t. Conte left the players in because this group should have done better. They should have it in them to boss that sort of competition. That should have been an ideal matchup for Spurs’ current style of play. However, the players did not hold their mud, and they were exposed for it.

Drawing the conclusion that Spurs should blow everything up in favour of the beautiful, flowing old game is madness. Beating the attacking midfielder drum might have a little merit, but it is not the magic button many of these stiff-necked fans blindly expect.

Yes, I would love to see Conte trying a different adjustment or two. However, this group should have been able to win this match with the same style they have focused on for months now… and the players were the ones who fell short.

Until these core players get to where they can fully execute the game Conte is after, we may not see him trust these players enough to put in very much adjustment.

at large
at large
9 days ago

It may be faint at times but surely we can all clearly see the writing on the wall. A top class manager brought in, not adequately backed, the best players leave in search of trophies. The manager is blamed but the writing on the wall tells the real story.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  at large

This

SpursGoliath
SpursGoliath
9 days ago
Reply to  at large

He’s one, maybe two, players short of what I think would be a perfect squad for him to work with. Not saying a ‘perfect squad’ (which is?) but a totally acceptable one for him to meet his ambitions. It really isn’t far off that level at all and he should be able to minimise the impact of that slight weakness.

He should be able to achieve something this season with the squad at his disposal – anything less and he’ll have failed.

January we must enter the market again like last year though.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  SpursGoliath

His contract expires in just over a year, I don’t see him signing a new one…

judge
judge
9 days ago

Lets get this right = we suffered the inevitable defeat that was gonna kick start the nay-sayers .
Well this is the time for the man we know he is , to step forward and repair replace and re invigorate our players , this is why he’s paid the big potatoes .
Is there any one out there thinking he will not be going ‘radio rental’ at that performance , any body doubt he has the courage to do what is necessary to correct this absurd situation – we lost a match !!!!!
What a reaction , a million miles over the top [ and yes I do realise it was a pile of sh..] Conte was brought in to remove this from our system – its a setback that had to come but now is the time to measure the man , I for one have complete faith………….

Tangangry
Tangangry
9 days ago
Reply to  judge

I’m not usually a nay-sayer, but this is blinkered. How many rough AF “bullied our way to the points because we worked harder and are a bit fitter” sort of results can a team get away with before they actually start needing to be good at football?

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  Tangangry

You aren’t a ‘nay-sayer’ its an invention, a bit like a ‘happy-clapper’.

It’s the happy-clappers that say “nay-sayer” you’ll notice too…

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  judge

What on earth is a ‘nay-sayer’ in this respect? What are people saying ‘nay’ to exactly?

The ENIC spin that Conte has been ‘backed’ this summer? I say ‘Nay’ to that.

Our first eleven has been improved to any significant degree this summer? I say ‘Nay’ to that.

We’ll do well in Europe under Conte, given his record I say ‘Nay’ to that.

If a ‘nay-sayer’ is someone who disagrees with stuff that just doesn’t stack up, then sure, then a ‘nay-sayer’ they are. If that’s a convenient label you choose to put on salient individuals with a need for hard evidence. that’s your own business. However, there’s really no need to subject others to such nonsense…

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
Mr Chops
Mr Chops
9 days ago

I have never been convinced that anything has changed at Spurs in the last few years. I vowed never to watch another game after last season.

Yet – just at the beginning of this summer’s transfer window – Perišić – an EARLY signing – maybe Conte was to be backed after all.

But alas – it was to be one more hopeful dream.

It’s taken the NEW England cricket team to remind me of why I have supported Spurs for 45 years. For it is here that we hear once more our history…….

“The game is about glory. It is about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.”

and for reference see the article below.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62872257

East Stand
East Stand
8 days ago
Reply to  Mr Chops

Welcome Mr Choos. Great post sir…

Plantagenet
Plantagenet
9 days ago

Levy and ENIC are in the last chance saloon with the fans. Failure under Conte would be the final nail in the coffin. All fans, all possible future managers and everyone else in football would know for certain to never bother with Tottenham Hotspur. There would be no benefit of the doubt. Look how hard it was to recruit a manager after sacking Mourinho.

The question is, does Levy realise?

And I really don’t think Poch would ever come back if the same nonsense was going on.

In my opinion the transfer window went quite well. Could have been better but if you had offered me that in April I would have bitten your hand off. We are seeing that it is going to be a slow process. Whilst it is fair and right to continue to criticise the deficiencies in the transfer business, we shouldn’t be losing our minds over it.

Sergei Redrum
Sergei Redrum
7 days ago
Reply to  Plantagenet

Are ENIC really in the last chance saloon? Methinks they don’t care a jot what anyone thinks except the accountants. As long as the people are funnelling down the longest bar in Europe, what odds a few thousand grumpy football fans. After all, Levy is in this for the land grab and gentrification – not the football.

Mr wag
Mr wag
9 days ago

Sounds a about right. We almost got away with a draw and then we could have continued to say we’re undefeated. The cracks are getting bigger! I worry about managers who have rigid systems and play the same players. Work with what you have and change up. It’s odd he’s persisting with Royal and why not rotate Son more. Porh will be back before long to save Levy’s skin. I hope he gets a job soon so Levy can’t use his get outta jail free card.

Billy Tonsils
Billy Tonsils
9 days ago
Reply to  Mr wag

Great Post.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  Mr wag

I can’t see Conte managing us past this season, it just doesn’t stack up…

Legoverlass
Legoverlass
9 days ago

I never understood the chatter about how good our transfer window was. Yes we did some activity early which in view of our past history was unusual and was interpreted as a new dawn. However on analysis we brought in Perisic and Forster on free transfers and added Bissouma for around £25 million. Nothing to light any fireworks for. Then along comes the typical Levy sleight of hand with the announcement pre season ticket renewals that a “ war chest” of £150 million has been provided to rebuild the team.This one would assume is an “additional “ £150 million to the usual transfer budget allocation that should have been in place. More chatter about how the club is changing and is backing Conte. However, our transfer activity slowed and we were as always linked with all these quality players but seemingly unable to secure anyone even with Conte, a world class stadium,and CL football. Then up pops an announcement the Levy is once again back involved with transfers and has personally taken over the transfer of Spence a young and unproven player in the EPL let alone the CL. As usual this transfer dragged on and on and on in typical Levy style as it was of course breaking the bank at 12 million. In the meantime all the big names we were linked with and which I suspect Conte wanted and needed failed to come to fruition. Then a sweetener for the fans who were starting to get restless with the signing of Richarlison for £60 million way over what the player is worth. The chatter then was moved by the ENIC and Levy PR machine to having to now sell the deadwood before we could add any more players but that the club was looking to add more incomings at the end of the window.More and more you could sense the hand of Levy all over this window, The then failure to do anything at the end of the window leaving us still without the required RWB, CB an ATM that everyone can see are desperately needed. I feel Conte was fuming at the failure to bring in real proven quality yet again which makes it impossible to compete in four competitions and rotate whilst sustaining quality. Hence Conte has basically fielded the same starting eleven for each match and we end up with Dier, Davies and Emerson in our defensive line up in the CL. I think Conte is refusing to play Spence as a gesture to Levy about buying players he does not want in his squad at this level. Even Conte’s narrative has become somewhat muted of late sounding more like Pooch talking about how we controlled matches and taking the positives out of matches whilst looking at the negatives. There have been few positives all season and we are heading to the Emirates shortly and I sense that will be a defining moment in evaluating exactly what if any progress has been made since last season in comparison with Arsenal. I am expecting to see and hear an increasingly angry and frustrated fan base which in turn will impact on the way Conte reacts. My faint hope is that once again things will get hot under the collar for Levy and he will be forced to do what he should have done in the summer and bring in three additional quality signings in the January window.My concern is that Conte will get increasingly restless at the flim flam tactics of Levy and ENIC and will look to walk which will see Kane leave and the club start to free fall yet again and Levy re hire Pooch as his perfect patsy once more.

Last edited 9 days ago by Legoverlass
East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago

It’s hard to fully judge Conte when he hasn’t been back sufficiently. In order to put his methods fully into practice he will need the level pf player he’s worked with at Inter, Juventus and Chelsea. I mean, in every position of the team.

His system is a back five when defending and is supposed to be a 3-4-3 when attacking, but if you don’t have the right players or the quality of player to implement this, and also provide the service into the forwards, you’re left with a compromise. A 5-2-3 that isn’t attacking or particularly effective defensively. We haven’t seen what a property staffed Conte side should look like.

So Conte finds himself in the same position as every single coach/manager under Daniel Levy of working with compromises, where problems aren’t ironed out, Gestures are made but these are in the form of signing youngsters that aren’t ready, 33 year olds who might do a job for 18 months etc etc. Like Jose before him, this just isn’t the working environment to which he’s become used to.

The people that run Chelsea have brought in Potter because he will be given the task of developing and using the large amount of younger talent at the club that rarely got a kick when Abramovic was owner. The clearest indication that the way they will be run is changing. Conte and Jose were brought in by Levy purely to get the side back into the Champions League. I predict that Conte won’t be at Spurs very long and when Kane leaves (probably next summer) there will be a ‘Potter moment’ at Spurs too, and a manager who will work with a younger group will be be brought in. I wouldn’t have ruled out Potter for Spurs before he went to Chelsea, now it’s not impossible that Poch returns take this role on. In the meantime Conte will try and win something, one thing’s for sure, it won’t be the the Champions League…

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
Billy Tonsils
Billy Tonsils
9 days ago

What I know is Bissouma was being roundly lauded by all and sundry last season we buy him and he isn’t worth game time ..sure he is delighted ..as for Spence ..Royal justifies him being given a chance..Like so much of this Spurs team Royal looks good unless a team actually plays against him…atm Spurs have the charisma of a house brick and the allure of a turd in the bed …something isn’t right ..the notion that we are going to sucker punch the opposition by playing dog rough football for 45 to 60 mins a game is myth. This squad is having whatever ability it has drained out of it …by a system which leaves the players looking knackered creatively bereft and playing with their pants on the wrong way round..perhaps it’s that’s..silly me.

Last edited 9 days ago by Billy Tonsils
East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago
Reply to  Billy Tonsils

The parallels with Jose are obvious, however when Conte’s system (like Jose’s at times in the past) is implemented with quality players it can be good to watch. The key difference between Conte and Jose being that Conte’s system while similarly counter attacking, involves more players in the forward counter attacking movement than Jose’s teams. Both wing-backs, one of the central midfielders, the three forwards and even one of the back three can be involved in the interplay. Jose plays a much more rigid back four even when counter attacking.

Whatever your take on all this might be, at the end of the day it’s about backing the manager with quality players who are ready to do a job, this wasn’t provided for Poch when the team needed quality reinforcements, Jose didn’t get what he needed and neither has it been provided for Conte.

“Don’t… don’t, don’t don’t believe the hype…”

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
Billy Tonsils
Billy Tonsils
9 days ago
Reply to  East Stand

Can’t help feeling there is an element of playing all the right notes just not in the right order..maybe it’s hope..

Marbella Spur
Marbella Spur
9 days ago

Love the Melvin Udall quote re “Spurs are lousy in bed”. With regards to last night’s snooze fest, it was entirely predictable. Catenaccio Conte is a one trick pony without the necessary imagination to change tactics and formation. I say again that the enthusiasm generated by many of our supporters over “the major revamp” in the transfer window is totally misplaced. Unless we start buying top class players who would get into the City, Chelsea or Liverpool sides, we will never compete properly. Our two best players, Son and Kane are thirty and twenty nine years old respectively, and both of them look as if they want to be somewhere else. I read a number of comments in pervious posts that Royal was much improved and that we should appreciate his ability as Conte had placed his trust in him. Well, for the record, Royal was abysmal last night and I have no confidence in either of them.
If the fans want to understand how far away we are from being a competitive side in the CL, then they would have been convinced by watching the Bayern v Barca game last night which was both exciting and technically good. This is the sort of football I enjoy, not watching Spurs under Conte and when I read the inevitable posts that we might not play pretty football but that the results mitigate this, wait until the results start to go against us. If you’re going to play negative turgid football, the fans might endure it for a while if we continue to remain in the top four, but the Spurs fans are notoriously fickle. As I have mentioned before, playing exciting football and winning trophies are not mutually exclusive.
Levy and Enic are no better than the Glazers.

James McKevitt.
James McKevitt.
9 days ago

If we look tired now God knows what shape we will be in after the World Cup.

Maybe training with the World Cup in mind has been overdone, Liverpool seem to be lethargic as well, Chelsea too but maybe for different reasons.

Are some of the players saving their best for the World Cup, afraid of being injured?

judge
judge
9 days ago

That , I feel , is a very legitimate point .
Forgive me but the blood and thunder English league game is looking criminally soft .
Twas only the Chelsea ‘derby ‘ game that indicated any passion and that is especially so in the Prem .

VincentianMagic
VincentianMagic
9 days ago

The truth is a lot of people were blindsided because we got in a few players early doors. However, apart from Richy, the money was minimal. What we required was a top drawer CB – Bastoni et al were mentioned – we got Lenglet on loan (no offence Clement).

We needed a top drawer RWB – we got Spence (who I actually believe is the best wing back on our books), but Conte immediately claimed that his was not his purchase. So far he’s played, what, 10 minutes?

We needed a top drawer AM (something missing since Eriksen left). We got no-one.

I have nothing against the purchases made apart from the fact that it appears a ‘get more bodies inside the building’ process rather than addressing quality shortcomings in the squad.

As a result, apart from Richy and Perisic (who is rotated with Sessy), the starting 11 is the same. Add in the fact that the football is dour and seems to rely on a system that doesn’t lend itself to creativity, and we have problems.

Kulesevski is the most creative player we have (the only one some may say, unless Kane moves into midfield), so he needs to play (perhaps more centrally behind the front two. Try Son in this system, but from the bench as he does not warrant a place at the moment.

I also believe that Bissouma needs more minutes, as he can tackle, but also keeps the ball well and generally plays forward thinking football.

Spence definitely needs a chance too as physically he is similar to Emerson, but has much more end product.

We have limited options unfortunately as the squad is shorn of creativity. The next two transfer windows need to focus on bringing in two players of this ilk as well as addressing a lack of genuine quality/leaders at the back.

At the moment we have to grin and bear it and just eek out as many points as possible. However, if we continue to play the same negative style we will be found out more often than not.

Last edited 9 days ago by VincentianMagic
Spurs47
Spurs47
9 days ago

Agree with much of the article. The football is really, really boring. Sometimes it affects the opposition, they too fall asleep, we get lucky and scrape a result. This has happened a few times this season as we rode our luck-think Wolves, Fulham, Marseille to name a few. Set up last night for a draw and ultimately got what we deserved-nothing. It will happen again of course. It will happen again because Conte is rigid when it comes to set up and selection. There can be no excuse for continuing to select Son who has not only failed to score in 8 games now but has also put in some abysmal performances. Talking of which, what does Spence have to do to get a game when Emerson plays like a donkey. What does Bissouma have to do when PEH is fatigued and completely off it. Last night we were sleep walking into a defeat by a footballing side who were neat, unexceptional but nevertheless better than what was in front of them. Our boys looked tired, lacked imagination and need a reset badly. Over to you AC.

East Stand
East Stand
9 days ago

Managers are paid handsomely to perform miracles and polish turds. Sound familiar? Same old, same old…

Last edited 9 days ago by Easty
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