They’ve Sewn A Gold Star Onto The Coat Of Every Away Supporter

They’ve Sewn A Gold Star Onto The Coat Of Every Away Supporter

Picture 236

Hello. And what an adventure that turned out to be, eh? And they call this a second string competition. We weren’t alone in being targeted by people wanting to duff other people up. The Bar Codes got it both before and after their game. I made the point yesterday and I’ll make it again. UEFA have a duty of care to those people who purchase their tickets.

This business of them assessing the hate, the violence, the conduct of clubs and their supporters after the event then emerging from  a six course banquet to pass out library fines has got to go. And replaced by a comprehensive strategy to keep safe those who keep football the greatest sport on the planet. Without argument and without deliberation.

As it stands, when you buy a ticket for a UEFA game, legally, you’re as comprehensively covered as you are by those signs in nightclub cloakrooms. Whilst they will charge you £1 to mind your coat, they accept no responsibility for loss or damage to it while it’s in their ‘care’. This must not be allowed to go on.

And you know, the thing is, it’s not as if this some sort of a conundrum. I’m sure it was David Bowie who said, you know when you’ve got a problem when money can’t solve it. In this instance then, all UEFA have are solutions. There is so much filthy lucre swilling around in their enterprises that this could be addressed overnight. In the click of a finger.

The attacks on Spurs fans both in Lazio and in Lyon were completely avoidable. Had there been a significant police presence in the respective city centres then it is close to unbelievable that anything like this would have transpired. These raids were organised based upon they would have no oppostion. On a practical note, there are so few away fans at these events, it requires little planning to announce designated ‘safe zones’ for supporters. You could for example, have a market square and a route to and from the stadium patrolled the night before and the night of the game.

So there’s you answer, but what about the question? Why did these attacks happen? Well, for those of you joining us late on this evening’s episode of ‘Planet Earth & Its Undesirable Inhabitants’… David Baddiel and Peter Herbert would tell you a tale that doesn’t make any sense. One of Spurs fans cavorting, shouting ‘Yid Army’ at people, naively believing that they were just celebrating all being of the Tottenham tribe, yet not realising they were offending everyone of the Jewish persuasion as well as inciting hatred from any neo Nazi who happened to be casually, innocently within earshot. 

But that’s simply not the case. Call them neo Nazis, call them football hooligans. Call them what you will, but in the words of Michael Caine as Alfred the butler:

Some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

These people might be committed racists, they might ‘just’ be disenfranchised kids wanting to throw a brick at someone, anyone, but you can’t point the finger at Spurs fans on this one. These people are purely out to cause chaos. There was one report from The Smoking Dog  pub of a middle aged couple sat having a G&T when a table top or whatever came through the bar window. This wasn’t an assault on a Zionist splinter cell meeting. This was ‘some people’ having a drink or seventeen the night before a game. 

So what of the whole ‘Yid’ word debate? It’s been done to death. So in a nutshell, those that protest against it, such as Baddiel and Herbert, don’t grasp the meritorious side of football’s tribalism. A word that once was so frequently prefixed with something horrible, such as ‘dirty’ (and worse of course) has not so much been reclaimed, as embraced and melded into a vibrant subculture.

What percentage of Spurs fans are Jewish? If you ask that question, you are missing the point. The point is, this tribe is declaring itself impervious to all-comers. The non Jew sings proudly, shoulder to shoulder with the Jew, together they are Tottenham. Together, they are the boys from White Hart Lane.

But hasn’t hasn’t this ‘embracing’ of the word actually caused damage though? Isn’t that surely what fuelled these attacks, that Spurs fans have been blatant about about their tolerance towards the Red Sea pedestrians? Wow! What a counter argument! So the little Jew and his little Jew sympathisers should keep their heads down, then? Pffffffffft. Okay. You do realise the Allies were officially declared winners of WW2, don’t you?

You remove the word Yid and then what? You think that makes the bad people suddenly go away? Of course not. They will simply look for another opportunity to feel provoked. The thing you need to remove are the bad people.

I’m not laying the blame fully at the door of Baddiel and Herbert, but they are guilty here, of having effectively sewn a gold star on the coat of every Spurs supporter and then immediately challenged that supporters’ right to wear that star. The solution is obvious. UEFA need to do something more than hand out library fines, and media luvvy loudmouths need to give a lot more thought to who are the real villains of this piece. Maybe then we can have a modest drink, a modest sing song, and a night in Europe without all hell breaking loose.

About Harry Hotspur

“What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. Apart From West Ham. They are absolute toilet"

330 comments

  1. It wasn’t so much a problem till the likes of herbert the ambulance chaser made it one was it? I don’t recall it being from other years, memory is a bit like a sieve tho

    • Be very suprised if the french & italiens know who herbert or baddiel is.
      Didnt we also get trouble against wolfsburg, prague & sevilla?

      Its nothing about jews, its just something they use to get a rise. Its because its an english club & the hooligan rep that goes with it. You dont hear about trouble in europe with bayern munich or ajax, who are also clubs with strong links to jewish fans.

      • Good point.
        I would also like to point out that Baddiel is a fraud and a cnut.
        Apart from trying to be faux working class when he was doing the footy show with Frank Skinner, he also tried to get a ghost written book published via a feminist publishers when he heard that his old mate and new nemesis, Rob Newman, had published a novel. The feminist publishing house pointed out that, although they were quite trendy, he couldn’t publish a book with them because he wasn’t a woman.

        He is about as qualified to talk about football as I am to lecture on the biscuit game.

        “After studying at Haberdashers’ Aske’s Boys’ School in Elstree, an independent school near Borehamwood, Hertfordshire, he read English at King’s College, Cambridge, where he was a member of the Cambridge Footlights, and graduated with a double first. ”
        In short, an upper-middle class knob pretending to be in touch with the masses. Cock.

  2. Bull, Spurs fans play up to being a Yid when the vast majority are not. Unfortunately there are still plenty of nutters around Europe who a not fond of Jewish people for some reason, why not ditch the Yid nonsense and stick with the football.

    • play up to being a Yid? do you mean we walk around with long curly locks having just snipped our foreskins in some pre-match ritual? how do we play up exactly?

      • The Yid shite is utter nonsense, clowns singing about being a Yid when the nearest they have got to that is trying a Bagel :D istort:

        • You are missing the point. By referring to themselves as “Yids” Spurs fans are not claiming to be Jewish they are just claiming to be Spurs fans.

          • I cant believe I missed the official THFC song proclaiming to support semetism, Spurs fan I am, Yid I am not.

            • In which case N18, you have missed how language has evolved. Of course, if have an issue with Jews, then maybe this planet, let alone this club ain’t for you, my old son!

              • is that the same 18 as the one in combat 18 i wonder?

              • Get a fuckn grip tbh,im irish catholic,supporting spurs since i was 3.37 now,and yeah the word yid i dont use,all this crap is b

                • sorry,because the english are hated around the world,why?dont know?did ye not try and invade pillage and conquer more country’s than anyone,that aside who are you to tell a spurs fan to go elsewhere,oh and the world economy is struggling so there is more crime .its not the jew factor,COME ON MY BELOVED SPURS

                  • The English aren’t hated around the world but Irish people would like to believe that. It makes them feel better about themselves when they are immigrating en masse whenever the government drags them into recession. Spurskip you are just the kind of bigot I hear everyday in Ireland. Go support Shamrock rovers or Bohs twat

                • well as an irish man myself i can tell you antisemitism is rife in ireland.SPURS BEFORE COUNTRY FOR ME SO FUCK THEM. I AM A YID.

                • Both parents Irish,wife Irish,living in Ireland,Sick to death of Irish people who live in the past.@spurskip,get a history book and look up the part the Irish played in building the old Empire and take that fucking chip of your shoulder.

                  • the yid from room five

                    No Spurskip has a valid and balanced argument… he has a chip on both shoulders!

                  • woops did i annoy you,gona eat the two chips,who built england,the irish,who’s up the americans arses,england,do you have to be english to support an english club,dont think so ya eejit,lived in england for a few years so if that makes you feel a bit better

                  • i made a point about the english,do i hate them,fuk no,am i living in the past no.have english family in manchester,sorry for offending,must havr hit a nerve

                  • No nerve touched,just bored with the same old rhetoric.It just amazes me that most Irishmen can get so excited about anything English,while eating the big shit sandwich that is being served to us all at the moment.Most will grumble about paying the new “poll tax” that’s coming and the water rates but will pay and do fuck all about it.I know,(I was there) that in England people would fight against it,and protect their future.Not just sing songs about bad things that happened in the past.

                  • Spurskip.no raw nerve here Just correcting your stupid stupid comments from a bigoted narrow minded idiot. Hear comments like yours everyday in Ireland and people like you make me sick. Grow up educate yourself then drag yourself kicking and screaming into the 21st century

                  • spurskip, you are really embarrassing, im from dublin, been a spurs fan since 81, please dont post your crap here – ireland,england,scotland,wales… we get on great, i love meeting people from our home nations, what i dont like is uneducated neanderthals who are pathetically anti english down to their own lack of education, you for example

                  • My grandfather, when drunk, used to boast to us kids that he had Irish blood, and was fcuking proud of it! Turns out, it was on a carving knife hidden in his shed…..

                  • the yid from room five

                    Well what did the Brits ever do for us?
                    eh.. well apart from the postal system…
                    Oh! the canals…
                    eh… the telephone?
                    oh! computers and the internet-thats handy!
                    Television!
                    Penicillin!
                    Colour film!
                    DNA!
                    HP sauce!
                    Kendal’s mint cake!
                    Smallpox vaccine…

                    anyway you get the idea!- keep em coming!

          • Yeah but the nutters with the big sticks and knives think all Spurs fans are Jewish. Look north of the border to see what bringing religion into football does.

            • They are using the word as an excuse to attack people. They are ignorant thugs who may be racists

            • Totally agree with Felching – no idea why Spurs (uniquely so far as I know) have developed a devisive religious/racial identity in relatively recent times, while other clubs (like Everton, historically the catholic team in Liverpool) have moved on. I’m not Jewish, I’m not a ‘yid’ but I support Spurs, and too bad if the thought police who’re so keen to decide who qualifies as a ‘real’ supporter don’t agree.

        • you’re right, next time i’m at the Lane i’m tossin’ my bagel at the away goallie

      • ‘yid army’ – foreign person ‘an army of yids’?

  3. I’m still half expecting Platini to ban Spurs from European competition as the most expedient way to solve the problem.

    • He’d love too,the mans a anti English football nutter.

      • Totally agree; once you make the intellectual leap, to assume he is anti-English, everything he says make sense. As for Baddiel, he’s a man that sits among a bunch of neo-nazi’s, and claims we are anti-semitic.

        • next home game against chelski let’s all generously spread cheese wizz upon our oven hardened bagels and as one, stand up and aim our bagels directly at mr.baddiel

  4. Good piece, well written. Bravo sir and you’re right. The “Yid debate” should be over once and for all. A jew I am not (birth certificate says muslim ironically, but an antitheist I am) but a yid I am. That is all…

    ….almost….

    ….COYS…

    …THAT, is all

  5. “Look at that short skirt and low cut top that Tottenham are wearing; the old girl was asking for it.” Michel Platini

  6. What irony when the grandfathers of these supporters were the very people who saved these yobs from being brought up under the tyranny of Nazism.These animals should be deported by the French authorities as they surely know who they all are.

    • Sadly I think some of these yobs grandfathers where very happy to point out local jews to the nazis

    • Well said Boaconstrictor. yet the grandfathers of these supporters were not just sitting around waiting for the grandfathers of the Spurs fans to come and save them from the tyranny of Nazism. They were collaborating with the Germans and initiating the transport of Jews themselves. When I heard that Spurs fans had been attacked (again) my immediate thought was that this was connected to anti-Semitism.

      And as for David Baddiel, he did enough to promote the idea of Spurs being a Jewish club back in the 90′s in his programme, “Fantasy Football.” Take a look at this –http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvf9gDExvng&feature=player_embedded

  7. The non Jew sings proudly, shoulder to shoulfer with the Jew, together they are Tottenham. Together, they are the boys from White Hart Lane.

    Dont call me a non-jew. WTF!!

    you know when you’ve got a problem when money can’t solve it— UEFA have the dosh and dont want to solve it. Its a political institution. AVB is their PM in the FA orgainisation.

    The Life of Brian is not a stupid as it seems.

  8. “First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”

    Martin Niemoeller.

    Me: Atheist Yid n proud

  9. Still kicking against the pricks H

  10. I am a Greek cypriot British National (non Jewish) Yid . Approve

  11. Irish Baptised Catholic Drunk Already Atheist Yid

  12. We may not all be Jewish or Muslim or Atheist or Christian or even Spurs fans but we are all human beings

    • My apologies to all the other religions I left out especially the Zoroastrians

    • Atheism is not a religion ODM.

      • Sorry I may be the father of an English language teacher but she didn’t inherit that from me

      • it takes a lot of of faith to be an atheist

      • No it’s a non prophet organisation

      • Actually Atheism is a form of religion as it requires a belief in the unprovable which is called faith. Thus a beleiver and an unbeliever, have that in common: belief in the impossible to prove.
        Only agnostocism admits to a truth.

        Furthermore atheists are just as fanatical about their beliefs as any fanatical believer and are just as quick to swing the ideological axe when disagreed with.

        I am yet to meet anyone with an ideological or religious belief, be it pro or anti god(s) who is willing to allow that his or her belief system may not be the right one and all too often violence lies nearby

        • the yid from room five

          “We can do without God, but not without religion” Napoleon To Pius VII

        • bullshit, god i hate the religious, fcuking idiots anyone who actually believes in a god with todays tech. as Jim Jefferies says, if you believe in a god you are fcuking stupid, michelle call me a mick, call me whatever but dont ever say atheism is a form of religion you utter twonk, we dont get together every sunday and kneel in front of pedos, we dont believe in the ridiculous concept of an afterlife and so on, michelle, i fear you are so stupid only god can save you ;-)

    • thanks for reminding me what species I am – I was beginning to think I might be a sloth

    • How dare you tar LLL with that brush!

  13. Excellent piece Sir Harold

    • I’m so ashamed. I only do this for the hits. yet I lurched out. Least that’s wot I told the judge about that business in Beauchamps Place. I mean, all that underwear on display, and me a young swinger.

  14. Top top piece, but i doubt Platini and his cohorts will get to read it never mind act on it. I do fear it will be lost on quite a few on the blog though.

  15. Half Italian, one-quarter Jew, one-quarter mongrel, born Catholic, learned to be agnostic. American,
    I am

    The Cincinnati Yid

    Good piece HH, I stand with all my Yid brothers and sisters. COYS

  16. Good article HH. A police presence costs money, so UEFA/Platini would, if that card was played, try to shoulder that burden on the host club I think.

  17. It is all racist and that is what Australia is for, so get the boats ready. On this topic Apple is racist as the Irish find the iPad offensive.

  18. Born a human being and never looked back.

  19. I’m not Jewish, in fact I believe religion is utter tosh but growing up in Yorkshire as a Tottenham fan I’ve been a YID since the late 70′s. It was the Leeds fans who first called me it and I hated it but all these years later I embrace it, it is what I am and I am proud to be a member of the YID ARMY!

  20. Hoof gets the palm.

  21. These thugs wouldn’t even try it if they were up against the crew that I used to follow Spurs with in the late 1960s and up to 1976 – even though we are in our 60s now. Apparently, there has also been trouble between Lyon “supporters” and Ajax when at Lyon. I bet they wouldn’t dream of trying it at an away game.

    Excellent piece by the way.

    • please write a book or blog about the old days!

      • Others have already – we never started the trouble unless the other lot wanted to have a go.

        Mind you, having said that, I do remember a memorable game at Wolves – it was August 1971, first game of the Season -away – and it was utter mayhem. We managed to get a load of us into the North Bank before Wolves could get their act together – however, once they did……………there was even a copper on a police horse on the terraces along with loads of other coppers trying to keep us rival supporters apart. Loads of Spurs were in the South Bank at the other end and when we were singing, a lot of them charged across the field to join us – this was an hour before the game started…………………then the heavens opened up and it was an English tropical downpour……………….with the lads on the pitch and the coppers trying to stop them, the downpour turned the pitch into mud – everyone was slipping and sliding all over the shop – quite funny to watch from the North Bank as the coppers and the Wolves lot were trying to shove us back out…………….ha, ha, ha – happy days in many respects.

  22. Now that was a great piece. In fact worthy of the eyes of far more intellectual people than myself. I’m gonna have to cogitate that before I can make any/if any remark. Actually might be worth sending that somewhere fifa/uefa?

  23. I would like to hear from the Premier League……..

    ‘Today We Are All Yids’

  24. The refence to the ‘Red Sea Pedestrians’ from the film Monty film in its context was scripted to not only open a can of worm’s but to trigger debate about the confusion of belief. Though satarical, (sata…n) it was an excellent demonstation of how or if we ever find the truth- I enjoy football, I have witness glorious moments wearing the THFC colours, and would parade as a Blue and white Seven Sisters Road Bus user. For the rest of the peice its also a cans of worms. The worship of fiat currencies will prevail as David Bowie also wrote I am Dead man Walking.

  25. 100% NY Jew, Yid, whatever…. 110% Spurs!!! My history with this is that I was suppose to be on a channel trip to Rotterdam in 1983 with the friend who brought me into the fold. I had family visiting in London, so had to cancel at the last minute… Let’s just say my friend’s trip was extended by the Dutch authorities…. The Glory Glory nights of 83, 84 certainly had their ups and downs!!!

    Harry touched it briefly but it appears the Bar Codes had a very rough time of it this week….

    Honestly think it’s more an English problem. Geordies last night, Recent history of Scousers being knifed. The anti semitic portion gets compounded worldwide by a section of fans who wear blue or clarret/blue that are too idiotic in knowing they would also be targets with any type of travelling support or qualification for Europe.

    As England was the only country forced to truly change the culture, no one else on the continent had too. The predator is now the victim…. Only really bad English football violence that I can remember recently involved the two tribes of East London against each other or against Leeds. Don’t remember anything else lately.

    I keep thinking back to the lead character in “A Clockwork Orange” who is almost killed because his adjustments to “civilized society” meant always turning the other cheek…. Is that where we’re at?

    • A form of white middle class slavery….. Clockwork Orange. Good old Stanley, made films that were brilliant and intelligent. Lincoln the recent motion picture by SS is safe. He plays it safe, even in Schinders list. Stanley plays it dangeously safe. A difference class. Maybe AVB should watch Stanley films.

  26. Im a human, we all are. Everything else is unimportant.

  27. Harry thanks

  28. 100% jew yid and englishman. 0% european.
    never thought id log onto a spurs blog and see those heart wrenching pics of my folks in the ghettos with the stars. but fair play to you H coz maybe it will make a few of those west ham leeds chels scum think next time they sing spurs are on their way.. as for feynoord lazio etc well they will never change the cnuts that they are.
    i would love Beta Jerusalem to draw one of those clubs in europe and smash the living daylights out of their cowardly mickey mouse balaclava mug firms.

  29. What a pleasure to come across not only an articulate article but a huge list of comments most of which are non-racist, intelligent and constructive. Even the grammar is good!
    I’m an Irish atheist and with every attack on the yids I become even more Yiddish!
    COYS

  30. I have been reading the local Lyon press online to get some more info on the Wednesday night incident.
    It would appear that these neo-fascists have been causing racist motivated disturbances in the St Jean area for some time, hence the quick arrests by the gendarmerie.
    Whilst agreeing wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed by HH & everyone I very much doubt that UEFA will do anything as it would appear this group has nothing do to with OL or football in general.

  31. the yid from room five

    Irish by Birth, Yid through the grace of Pat Jennings (who is God to me)

  32. I resent being called a rosbif and am considering hiring a solicitor called Mr Herbert to represent me..Is he any good?

  33. I am pro-palestine and believe the state of Israel is a crime against humanity however I still sing “Yid Army” with pride at the lane. I think that tells you everything you need to know about the Spurs Yiddo Jewish connection. Basically the word Yid has two meanings. I think it says more about semantics and the power of words that they can have more than one meaning. Jews, Israel, hebrew, rabbi etc none of these thoughts even enter my head when I am singing about my beloved Spurs. There is a faint historic connection but this has now been lost. Yiddo is to Spurs what Gooner is to Arsenal. It sounds like a jewish word but it is no longer connected. The word has evolved. It is hard for some jews to swallow or get their head around but this is language and the evolution of language.

    • Peace brother Yid from a non left wing, non right wing, more of a defender, jew.
      I truly wish peace both in Lyon and the Middle East (I do prefer the West Bank to the North Bank!!!!!!
      Salaam Shalom and COYS!!!!!!
      GIVE ME WEMBLEY OR GIVE NE DEATH!

    • What utter utter garbage. Your comment is full of idiotic barely veiled bigotry. Won’t it be great when ‘enlightened’ society evolves to the point where we can eradicate Jews altogether? What people like you are too stupid to realise is that if natural selection existed amongst humans you’d be amongst the first to be rubbed out. Swallow that ‘Baz’.

      • Spurstacus come on man.He didnt suggest that.Personally its ok for Jews and Yids to have the word associated with them.This is a Tottenham site so there is no need to alienate anyone.
        As to the situation with the Palestinians and Israel it is stillup for debate.The existence of Israel isnt.Its a fact.But how we can live together in peace.Thatb is not lost yet.

        • Sorry Ron, I disagree with you. It’s attitudes like his that encourage racial hatred.

          • I like to let people speak and see if there is any vallue in what they say.
            I believe in Israel and its strength but I think not all palestinians are terrorists or even hate Israel.They have been fed a lot of misinformation too about the history of the area.
            I like to give people a chance.

            • And not all Jews are Zionist nut jobs who think the Palestinians are ‘subhuman’.

              • some of the problem is the chicken or the egg,but two truths are for sure that Israel has no other choice but to survive and the other one is that not all palestinians are looking for the end of Israel.Israel would prefer not to negotiate but if they did there isnt anyone really they can trust.
                so whatever peace there will be is either dominated by Israels power or small steps towards trust.
                There is an Islamicist element and that is dangerous and its being played out in many countries,with a small hardcore and many frustrated people in the balance

                • Israel has one massive friend in America, who gifts it billions in ‘aid’. Zionism is the flip side of Islamism. When ideas and religion are held in higher regard than another persons life then you have a recipe for brutal conflict. Israel will exist, that isn’t in question. But until it stops holding an entire population under aggressive, violent and inhumane captivity, it shouldn’t really expect to do so in peace. There are nutters who want Israel wiped off the face of the planet but there are nutters who believe they have a right to take Palestinian territory for themselves and see Palestinian life as lower than their own.

                  Its a big shit pie but the obvious thing for Israel to do would be to dismantle its illegal settlements and move back to its legal borders as a first step towards a settlement. But the rabid Zionist element in Israeli politics and society has never countenanced that idea. Meanwhile, the increasing squalor and dehumanizing apartheid that Palestinians are being forced to live in fosters more militancy which in turn fosters a hardening of support for the right wing in Israel (who have no interest in a settlement.)

                  My six pence.

      • Ok I apologise for any misunderstanding. What I meant was that ‘the creation of Israel was a crime against humanity’. I am not anti-jew or anti-palestine but what took place in the creation of Israel is the reason for all of the troubles that now exist in the Middle East between Israel and the Palestinians and the treatment of palestinians as a group of people. Anyway this is a Spurs blog and a love we all share is for our beloved Tottenham.COYS!

        • Baz,It was a jewish country with a bigger Jewish popukation than any arabs and while the palaestinians claim many Jews arrived after the war,many arabs came from other arab countries as well.They were never Palestinians.
          Many were transient workers and most didnt care about the area as a country anyway.
          Arabs never made a country and worked towards a country and even now havent built anything,prefering to blow things up.
          They only use democracy,they dont embrace it.They use it to gain power.
          Really I would like that to change but we can see thatb everywhere.We will see how the arab countries fare lets say in many arab countries where the young people want democracy and thyy have to same fears I have about what they have to do to get it.Democracy has to be earned,not given

          • It was it a Jewish country at all, and there were certainly more historic Palestinians on the land than Jews in 1947. Moreover, I find your comments about Arabs being incapable of creating democracy to be borderline racist. Is Israel a true democracy when it houses second class citizens and indeed operates a military control over an entire state?

              • With respect Ron, that doesn’t look like the most impartial source to go looking for ‘facts’.

                • Of course you eel like that.
                  Did you check thereferences?
                  or was it it the name of the the site that offered this suspicion?

                  • Nothing to do with the title – what are you suggesting? Just that the facts cited are being used to pit forward arguments rather than history. Hence, this is propaganda not historical record.

                  • Absolutely its about facts.
                    Its about history.Its the trued history of the area.Its about the many countries thoughout the middle east and elsewhere that were partoitioned after the war.
                    Its about the offers of peace.Its about the devine right that some feel to wipe Israel off the map.
                    Its the relative situation in all the other countries in the area with people that have been held by the their brothers,but who have only felt they were brothers when they have found the one thing that unites aall of Arabia,the hate of Israel.

                  • There are some facts cited, selectively, and lots of claims made from them, some of which definitely seem pretty dubious.

                    There are many other books, some of which I’ve even read, written by Jewish and Arabic and European and American commentators alike, which present a very different history of these facts, and I would recommend you take attention of these rather than base your opinions on the kind of history you’ve shown me.

                  • In any case, the fact I disputed with you specifically was that you said that Palestine was predominantly populated by Jews in 1947. This isn’t true:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine

                  • And also.. This debate is probably too big for a Spurs board mate. Lord knows a lot of people have tried to get to the bottom of it. There’s not much to be gained from me to’ing and fro”ing with you over it, not for anyone I reckon.

                  • Whatever I have read has not told the whole truth,so on the other side,it too doesnt show the full truth.
                    You mention that I was racist or have made racist comments but Im not racist.Im not sure what particular point you mean but I see what is happening in the arab world and I am not talking the arab people,I am talking the arab countries and the way they traet their own people.But they are generally unified in their hate for Israel.
                    Jordan,Saudi Arabia,Iraq and others were all formed by the UN and people displaced but little is said.Jordan killed 20,000 palestinians but this is nevefr discussed.
                    This is not racism.
                    I applaud the Arab spring and I also wouldlike Israel to make a just piece with the arabs both Palestinian and elsewhere but Hamas has in gtheir charter that they will destoy israel and Abbas of Fatah is too weak to make a deal with.
                    I totally disagree with the Israeli settlers by the way but the truth is there is nobody to negotiate with.The thinking is a step towards what they want and that is to erdicate Israel.Im sorry mate but thats not what I want.
                    When the arabs decide to change to build instead of tearing down and blowing up Ill start listening. I really hope that happens and I think Israel will change or at leats a big portion of it .Right now nobody can trust.
                    Tell me what arab country is building a democracy right now? which one?
                    Blaming israel is too easy.

                  • Israel has boken more UN Resolutions than any other country on this planet. Israel has repeatedly violated International Law and Geneva Conventions and continues to do so.
                    There isn’t anything even remotely ‘democratic’ about the way Israel has treated the Palestinians over the past 60 years. It is allowed to behave in this way because the ‘democratic’ US allows it to.

                  • Correction: Violated not ‘boken’.

                  • Well I do hope the Arab spring works.This is the litmus test.We will have to wait and see.
                    All blame has been on Israel including in the UN in modern times butIraq,Egypt,Syria,Libya will offer some clues about what we could expect in the future.
                    So far the jury is out.

            • http://www.jfns.org/page.aspx?id=43769
              why would anyone want to wipe off the face of the earth a country that has achieved all this and more in 50yrs.

              • Why would anyone want to wipe any country or people off the face of the planet? It’s a question which isn’t really worth considering in sensible circles.

        • The creation of Israel was a historical mistake, not really a crime against humanity. And it was Britain who did it. You can understand wanting to make some reparations to Jewish people after WWII but to think that creating a Jewish land surrounded by Islamic and indeed Christian people and states would be a good idea proved hideously naive and cackhanded. Although, up until this recent conflict, Muslims and Jews had mostly coexisted in relative peace around the world. The problems for Jews has historically come from Christian and other aggressors.

        • To bring it back on topic, I too am proud of the clubs Jewish association and particularly the fans adoption of the yid word in solidarity against racist abuse. That’s chuffing great in my opinion.

          • You make unanswerable arguments LLL.

          • You could be right about the demographics,Ill have to read more of that and for sure I thought earlier in the century there was a bigger Jewish population.
            Ive missed the first five minjutes of the game at the Etihad checking this out

            • The Zionist movement began in the late 19th century I believe, and there was from that point a growing migration to historic Palestine. However the numbers of Jewish people living there was still a minority in 1947.

  34. Following the atrocious disgusting behaviour of Hammers fans at WHL in November 2012, it looks to me like West Ham United football club have laid an elaborate trap to try to bring out the vilest possible side of the Tottenham Hotspur fans character. The game on Monday happens to be coinciding with a Bobby Moore tribute night at the Boleyn Ground which basically means Spurs fans have to sit through a half time commemoration of the memory of Bobby Moore. I have to say that Gold and Sullivan are seemingly doing their utmost to ensure that Spurs fans match the bad behaviour of their own fans in November and will taunt them with a carrot and donkey type scenario to see if the Spurs fans take the bait and disrespect the Moore tribute so that TV cameras can pick it up and Spurs fans can get a dose of their own medicine and the Spurs hierarchy can sweat a bit and be left to look stupid over their fans behaviour.

    I just wanted to say I was at the lane in November and was very proud that our fans kept their dignity amidst the terrible behaviour of the hammers fans and I am extremely confident that our fans will do us proud again. I am not so sure that we will not hear taunts from Hammers fans regarding Lyon and the fan trouble prior to the game a la Lazio in November.

    Finally I am not going to Upton Park on Monday but just wanted to send my utmost respect to our fans attending the game. It is not a place I would look forward to going as the west ham fans are absolutely vile and they are no better than their true rivals Millwall. West Ham should never be seeing Spurs as their main rivals. I have never known why the Hammers fans hate us so much. It seems weird as they are an absolute irrelevance and not a team I even think about aside from when we are playing them. A shitty little club that struggles to fill its current ground and yet wants to take over the Olympic Stadium. What a joke! I seriously hope we stuff them on Monday night. It promises to be a disgusting night where the scummiest fans in the Premier League will be on their worst behaviour as they hope their team wins their “mini cup final”. The sooner the game is played the better and with a bit of luck next year we wont have to play them.

    • I think fans should begin boycotting certain away fixtures if the opposition fans can’t respect our club at the Lane, why should they be rewarded with our money? I’m an away regular-but I’ve never been to the Emirates, as I’m not prepared to give them a brass farthing-fcuk ‘em, and if the feelings reciprocated then it’ll mean more Spurs fans can go to the Lane.

      • “I think fans should begin boycotting certain away fixtures”

        I definitely am. I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near the place. I’ve never experienced so much hate at a football match. The hatred and animosity is completely out of proportion. It is not all fans but a very very large “minority” of Hammers fans. Put it this way nearly all WHU fans at WHL were singing the vile nazi songs and Lazio songs. There wasn’t many who did not join in and I read a Hammers blog after where their own said it was the large majority. It is a game for fucks sake!!

    • I wouldn’t worry,we respected the minutes silence in Lyon after what happened the night before.

    • I sincerely hope that all those present respect the Bobby Moore ceremony, it matters not that he spent time playing for West Ham, if they are true FOOTBALL fans they will know that Bobby Moore was a great footballer, a gentleman and a great ambassador for English football. The guy deserves respect.

    • westbelfastyid block 35

      1st thing that came into my head,Hope we dont fall for it.I was at the wet spunk game and have to say they are the biggest shower of shite i have ever seen at the lane,on and off the pitch.brandy coroll was so piss poor i couldnt belive the donkey went for that money and he went and scored.typical spurs.

    • Bobby Moore and all of the England team were the best. Who cares what team each player played for – Martin Peters played for Spurs afterwards – Jimmy Greaves did his best and then played for West Ham – the England Manager was a great Tottenham player playing alongside Bill Nick in his day in the 1950s………………for goodness sake…………………………..

  35. Those scumbags who attacked our lads in Rome and Lyon are violent brain dead cowards – as harry stated if not us another group would be warranting a good pasting in their turf – cnuts plain and simple – but unlike the barcodes there appears to be political overtones in our attacks
    The eyeballer is proud to be a spurs fan / yid army

    In all honesty he doesn’t see the need for star of David flags at our games – this is more provocative than the term yid

  36. “I have never known why the Hammers fans hate us so much”

    Jealousy, pure and simple (and because they’re a bunch of c*nts!).

  37. west ham exploit Bobby Moore now and its disgusting. ghostly images of him appear on their full page adds in the Eve Stnd and Metro, Moore Than A Football Club strap line. v sad. “Sold Out 11th Game In A Row!” – well when u charge a quid for a ticket im not surprised.

  38. Proud to be associated with the Jewish fans at the club, and with the Jewish community at large. To suggest we drop the ‘yid’ term and Jewish flag on the grounds that they upset racists, is disgusting. Perhaps we should ban Jews altogether?
    I don’t know how offensive ‘yid’ is to Jews but this is the solitary consideration in deciding whether to keep or lose the term.

  39. What’s all this crap about the trouble being Jewish related?? It has nothing to do with Jews, if so, why the barcodes and why does it happen to other clubs fans that don’t have Jewish connections?? The reason is because they are English. Back in the 1980′s, English fans were notorious for going to Europe for both club and International games and causing mayhem. English fans were banned for away matches for 6-7 years because of it. Those incidents have never been forgotten, now it’s payback time.

  40. THE MAIN QUESTION ISN’T ABOUT JEWISH IDENTITY, LANGUAGE, OR WEST HAM FANS CHANTING. THE MAIN QUESTION IS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT MONTH WHEN WE GO BACK TO ITALY?!

    That is a real, practical problem on the ground. Italian police, riddled with fascists, aren’t going to protect SPURS fans. So clearly we are looking at Spurs organising to protect themselves, a determined anti-fascist group within the fans, armed and numbered.

    FASICISTS AREN’T CLEVER PEOPLE. ‘Spurs are a Jewish club.’ It’s stated in the press and the boneheads act on it.

    Truth is the end of the rainbow, the fact is we go back to Italy, and if (as I KNOW is the case) the police are not in the business of protecting Spurs fans, there will be a vigilante development. It’s a mess, and unless there is clear, real action (perhaps of the nature HH discussed – fanzones, etc – although I’ve walked to the San Siro, and it was backstreet city) then Spurs fans will organise to protect themselves and it will be nasty.

  41. I imagine you’re preaching to the converted on here Harry. But you preach very well, good article; hope it somehow makes its way out of this blog and is seen by those who still just don’t get it.

    UEFA need to stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution; I just don’t think they have it in them. I wonder what sort of reply we’d get if several of us emailed UEFA and Inter Milan, asking what measures they intend to have in place to avoid a repeat and to protect Spurs fans health and safety? Maybe the Milan police too.

    I’ll send a few in the morning if I feel the same way once the booze has worn off.

    night

  42. I blame that Watford FC chairman, Reg Dwight, who first condoned after match violence with his song “Saturday Night’s All Right for Fighting!

  43. awayday saturdays my favourite time of the week

  44. There is no memorial above Babi Yar,
    the steep ravine is like a coarse tombstone.
    I’m frightened,
    I feel as old today
    as the Jewish race itself.
    I feel now that I am a Jew.
    Here i wander through ancient Egypt.
    And here I hang on the cross and die,
    and I still bear the mark of the nails.
    I feel that I am Dreyfus.
    The bourgeois rabble denounce and judge me.
    I am behind bars, I am encircled,
    persecuted, spat on, slandered,
    and fine ladies with lace frills,
    squeal and poke their parasols in my face.
    I feel that I am a little boy in Bielostok,
    Blood splattered all over the floor.
    The ringleaders in the tavern are getting brutal.
    They smell of vodka and onions.
    I’m kicked to the ground, I’m powerless,
    In vain I beg the persecutors,
    They guffaw “Kill the Yids! Save Russia!”
    A grain merchant beats up my mother.
    Oh my Russian people , I know
    that at heart you are internationalists,
    but there have been those with soiled hands
    who abused your good name.
    I know that my land is good.
    How filthy that without the slightest shame
    the anti-semites proclaimed themselves
    “The Union of the Russian People”.
    I feel that I am Anne Frank,
    as tender as a shoot in April,
    I am in Love and have no need of words,
    but we need to look at each other.
    How little we can see or smell!
    The leaves and the sky are shut off from us,
    but there is a lot we can do-
    we can tenderly embrace each other
    in the darkened room!
    -”Someones coming!”
    -”Don’t be frightened. these are the sounds of spring,
    spring is coming.
    Come to me,
    Give me your lips quickly!”
    -”They are breaking down the door!”
    -”No it’s the ice breaking!”
    Above Babi Yar the wild grass rustles,
    the trees look threatening, as though in judgement.
    Here everything silently screams,
    and bearing my head,
    I feel as though I am slowly turning grey.
    And I become a long, soundless scream
    above the thousands buried here,
    I am each old man who was shot here,
    I am each child who was shot here.
    No part of me can ever forget this.
    Let the “Internationale” thunder out
    when the last anti-Semites on the Earth,
    has finally been buried.
    There is no Jewish blood in my blood,
    but I feel a loathsome hatred
    of all anti-Semites as though I were a Jew
    and that is why I am a true Russian.
    Dmitri Shostakovich, Symphony 13 first movement.
    Text by Yevtushenko.

  45. Whenever I’ve had he misfortune to try and explain the whole Yid scenario to others I’ve always used a Sparticus analagy. People look for anything they can to be able to claim superiority over others, much like children in a playground. If you have an affiliation with a group and the whole group is being persicuted because of the beliefs of a minority (within your group) then you have 3 choices,
    1 ignore it and hope it goes away (regardless of the obvious pain it causes you afilliates).
    2 join in and try to for the minority group out.
    3 Stand up and say he is me, as I am he, I’m Spaticus, I’m a YID. To insult him is to insult us all, we will take on his persona and repel your insults as one!

    It’s about like protecting the kid who lives on your street with the corrective shoe when he’s being picked on at school because he’s from your neck of the woods!

  46. It’s about like protecting the kid who lives on your street with the corrective shoe when he’s being picked on at school because he’s from your neck of the woods!

    Yes.

  47. Villa losing 1-0 to arse,but are tearing them apart.They should have scored 3

  48. Come on Villa FFS

  49. Villa very poor.

    Cannot keep hold of the ball.

    Arse are crap too.

  50. Yes…

    C’mon Villa!

  51. Villa come on !

  52. Arsenal very fragile. I hope we don’t bottle it and instead take the initiative to smash their season to smithereens next weekend.

  53. Hoof hoof, Villa!

    Arse are clueless.

  54. Mr. Wenger is agitated.

  55. Arse are actually trying!

  56. Lots of empty red seats!

    • And still the ‘official’ attendance states 60,079 turned up…………..some fucker at the Degenerates is clearly fibbing methinks.

  57. Well. 6 points in our next 2 games puts us 7 points ahead of them
    That has to be the target…

  58. Spurs U21 4
    Scum U21 2

    GETINNNNNNNN Happy

  59. ‘Austerity is worsening the economic crises because it leads to mass unemployment, and unemployment leads to fascism and fascism leads to war. We need to go for growth, the world’s needs have to be met not the world’s greed.’ Tony Benn

    The far right is generally on the up across Europe (Greece Golden Dawn) so for my money I blame the international Jewish banking conspiracy for this antisemitism, bloody Goldman Sachs.

    And yes I am being ironic because there is no Jewish conspiracy but I do blame greedy and ignorant bastards of all persuasions, denominations and flavours.

  60. Fasciist movements are deep rooted in the Lyon area, they oppose a free and equal society. Tottenham were there for football reasons only but the Fascists saw this as another opportunity to publicise their deluded and out of date agenda. It is a problem that the French Authorities and the Regional Government must tackle sooner rather than later, if attacks on visiting Supporters continue then Lyon will be forced to either play their home games in a neutral location or face expulsion from European competition, i believe if this sort of attack had happened in Manchester or London UEFA/FIFA would have reacted immediately, but in France no one will rock Platini’s boat.

  61. UEFA will conveniently take no retrospective action on the Suarez stamping incident from the 88th minute against a Zenit player unless the Ref mentions it in his report, can’t see him flagging up his own error. Both the Ref and his behind goal assistant saw nothing wrong with the assault and both will continue to officiate impartially in European Competition.

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